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Author Topic:   Windows 8
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 46 of 97 (754193)
03-24-2015 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by nwr
03-24-2015 9:01 PM


Re: .NET
nwr notes that:
On your telephone, the key with "#" symbol is called the pound sign.
However, the computer language is still "C sharp".
I want to larn me some Db. With plenty of log options.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by nwr, posted 03-24-2015 9:01 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Jon, posted 03-24-2015 10:52 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 97 (754194)
03-24-2015 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by xongsmith
03-24-2015 10:48 PM


Re: .NET
I want to larn me some Db.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by xongsmith, posted 03-24-2015 10:48 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 97 (754231)
03-25-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by coffee_addict
03-24-2015 8:34 PM


Re: .NET
C in English is pronounced "see".
On your telephone, the key with "#" symbol is called the pound sign.
added by edit
Have I stumbled upon a forum with inhabitants completely lacking of a sense of humor?
Well I got your joke and I thought it was hilarious.
This thing: #, has always been the pound-sign to me.
I remember when I first started seeing the hashtag on the internet, oh prolly around the time of #winning, in my mind I always read that as "pound-winning".
Then I heard people saying it out loud as "hashtag winning" and it didn't sound right to me at all.
"see pound" was actually second on my list being "see hashtag", both as ways that I didn't think it was pronounced.
Next time when you're making a one-liner joke, put a smiley in there so people will know.
Like just type : D (without the space) and it will come out like this:
Otherwise, yes, people will not get the joke and they will respond saying that you are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by coffee_addict, posted 03-24-2015 8:34 PM coffee_addict has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 49 of 97 (754529)
03-27-2015 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
03-22-2015 7:07 PM


Jon writes:
quote:
I don't think anyone has a problem with change. But there are a lot of people who have a problem with change for change's sake.
There is no such thing as change for change's sake. Every change has a purpose whether people realize it or not. As a structural engineer as well as an app developer, there have been many design changes that I have made for reasons that are not at all visible to the laymen. I used to try to explain these things to people when they asked me. Nowadays, I Just ignore them.
quote:
Is it impossible to improve on the stability of an operating system without forcing people to relearn pointless procedural tasks every few years?
What pointless procedural tasks? The exact same command procedures nowadays are exactly the same as they were 20 years ago.
If you are referring to the start button, more on this later.
quote:
Yep. That's what Windows 8 was designed for: to make MS more competitive in the phone OS market.
No, it wasn't. When I read this sentence, I cringed and decided not to engage you directly on this issue. Why?
Try to think of it this way. Suppose you come across a creationist and he tells you that evolution is impossible because it depends on a bunch of random events that somehow creates a skyscraper out of a pile of bricks. You know this perception of the theory of evolution is wrong. Actually, it's not just wrong. It's the same ole line repeated by creationists over and over among themselves that they all believe if they say it out loud they could destroy the tenets of science with it. Most people who are actually educated on this matter would cringe as a natural reaction.
What you said about windows 8 intending to compete with the mobile market has been repeated by many people on the internet so many times that many people have come to believe it is true. Unfortunately, just because a lot of people on the internet like to repeat this line doesn't make it true.
quote:
As such it's not very well suited to the kind of real work people use real computers for.
And this is another line that a lot of people like to repeat on the internet. Not at all true, however.
I'm a structural engineer and an app developer. Windows 8/8.1 have made my work a lot easier and more efficient.
quote:
I run XP; that's enough pointless flash for me.
Really loved my 2000, but it was a little too slow (the computer itself, not the OS) and I really only updated because I couldn't install anything on the damn thing, and then I just got a whole new system.
I fail to see how windows 8/8.1 affect you enough for you to go out of your way to tell people how bad you perceive it to be.
I have never told anyone to get windows 8/8.1. I always tell people to go with what's most comfortable for them. If xp is enough for you, then I think it's great. You should stick with xp.
As I've said elsewhere, I start having a problem with you when you start trying to force the rest of us to stay with xp.
It's the same position I hold with many other issues, like gay marriage. God bless you if you are oppose to gay marriage and will never marry someone of the same sex. I start having a problem when you try to legislate it for the rest of us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 03-22-2015 7:07 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by RAZD, posted 03-28-2015 9:19 AM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 51 by Jon, posted 03-28-2015 10:32 AM coffee_addict has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 50 of 97 (754534)
03-28-2015 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by coffee_addict
03-27-2015 10:48 PM


when change is not for MY sake then.
Small quibble
quote:
... But there are a lot of people who have a problem with change for change's sake.
There is no such thing as change for change's sake. Every change has a purpose whether people realize it or not.
The point is that any change that is not relevant to the user is pointless to them or actually becomes a nuisance rather than a benefit.
Example: I have a car, it has an anti-theft alarm system that I have no need of and did not want, but could not avoid. The car is now over 10 years old and there is a failure somewhere in the wiring for this alarm system: when it rains the alarm system goes off flashing lights and honking the horn in an annoying fashion. I pulled up the schematic to see if I could locate likely sources ... there are some 22 independent sending units that can turn the system on. I can disconnect the horn, but the lights still flash and drain the battery. If I disable the system the radio does not work (part of the anti-theft design) and the car won't start (also part of the anti-theft design). There is no way to turn this system off. Oh and btw, I leave the car unlocked so I do not need it, capisci?
Ask yourself how often you hear car alarms going off when there is no attempted theft and then ask yourself if this is really a system we need to have in every vehicle.
So I am selling that car and restoring a 1967 vintage austin mini ... with no green electronic systems, no radio, just KISS wiring and mechanical systems.
So if you want to make a change that you think improves a system, give me a means to turn it OFF just in case I (or others) don't want it. Better still allow me to uncheck it on installation. /rant
Oh and I took windoze 7 off this machine (format drive C) and replaced it with Ubuntu and XP (for running one application) in a dual boot configuration.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by coffee_addict, posted 03-27-2015 10:48 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 11:53 AM RAZD has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 97 (754539)
03-28-2015 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by coffee_addict
03-27-2015 10:48 PM


Evidence Trumps Pointless Analogies
There is no such thing as change for change's sake. Every change has a purpose whether people realize it or not.
I see RAZD replied to you on this, so I will only add a recommendation that you read The Waste Makers for an insight into planned obsolescence. What RAZD describes is a really good example of quality obsolescence: a single dysfunctional component has made the entire system unusable well before it should otherwise be retired.
quote:
Vance Packard in The Waste Makers (1960):
A part of the breakdown pattern apparently was the loading of the appliances with gadgets that often immobilized the whole machine when they failed.
...
The Wall Street Journal noted: "Parts and accessory dealers naturally are pleased with the added extras put on new cars." They should be. I have two neighbors who bought station wagons in 1956. One bought a model with power steering, power brakes, automatic shifting, power windows. The othera curmudgeon type who doesn't think that shifting gears and raising windows by hand are too much of a strainbought a car without any of the extras. His years of ownership of the car have been relatively trouble free. (And by spurning the extras he saved several hundred dollars at the outset.) The other neighbor who bought the car with all the extras moans that he got a "lemon." His car, he states, has been laid up at the garage seven times, usually because of malfunctioning of the optional equipment. (p. 112; 138)
quote:
Yep. That's what Windows 8 was designed for: to make MS more competitive in the phone OS market.
No, it wasn't.
But it was:
quote:
Wikipedia on Windows 8:
Windows 8 introduced major changes to the operating system's platform and user interface to improve its user experience on tablets, where Windows was now competing with mobile operating systems, including Android and iOS.
I'm going to leave it at that for now. I've offered at least four of five points of support on this topic in this thread alone; you've so far given nothing to support your own position.
The ball's in your court. It's time to either play or get off the field.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by coffee_addict, posted 03-27-2015 10:48 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 12:00 PM Jon has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 52 of 97 (754542)
03-28-2015 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by RAZD
03-28-2015 9:19 AM


Re: when change is not for MY sake then.
While the car alarm cannot be turned off, everything about 8/8.1 that people complain about can be turned off. With literally a couple clicks, you can make windows 8.1 look and behave like windows 7.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by RAZD, posted 03-28-2015 9:19 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by RAZD, posted 03-28-2015 2:54 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 53 of 97 (754543)
03-28-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Jon
03-28-2015 10:32 AM


Re: Evidence Trumps Pointless Analogies
I find it incredible that a long time member like yourself on a forum that regularly deals with crackpot creationists and strawman arguments have made a strawman argument yourself in this topic.
The problem with your argument that I have isn't that windows 8 is meant to be competitive to the mobile platform. The problem I have is you made a jump from being competitive to the mobile platform to mobile platform is not for productivity thus making windows 8/8.1 useless to work. So, after you've made that declaration, every time you say windows 8/8.1 is made for mobile user, the mind of the readers automatically go back to the connection that windows 8/8.1 isn't useful for work. Do you see where I'm coming from or do you want me to explain this point more?
What I'm trying to understand is why specifically you think windows 8/8.1 isn't useful. You've made plenty of generalized declarations regarding it just like how creationists make a lot of bold generalized declarations regarding evolution. And you of all people should know that at the end of the day it always comes down to the details.
So, let's discuss about the details. What part of windows 8/8.1 do you find make your entire user experience horrid or useless?
edit
For example, here is a screenshot of my desktop at the moment. Using a keyboard and mouse with this desktop is as standard as any desktop that came before. What's wrong with this desktop that is so horrible?
Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.
Edited by Admin, : Remove image.
Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Jon, posted 03-28-2015 10:32 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Jon, posted 03-28-2015 12:40 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 97 (754545)
03-28-2015 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by coffee_addict
03-28-2015 12:00 PM


Re: Evidence Trumps Pointless Analogies
The problem with your argument that I have isn't that windows 8 is meant to be competitive to the mobile platform. The problem I have is you made a jump from being competitive to the mobile platform to mobile platform is not for productivity thus making windows 8/8.1 useless to work.
That too I have addressed; from Message 1:
quote:
"Why Enterprise is Avoiding Windows 8" from Forbes:
Forrester Research analyst David Johnson believes that the problem lies with the fact that Microsoft's newest operating system doesn’t bring anything of real value to the table.
"Enterprises just don't see Windows 8 having value," wrote Johnson in a recent report. "They don't see the value in the changes in Windows 8."
And you of all people should know that at the end of the day it always comes down to the details.
Key words being "at the end of the day". We don't start with the details; we get there as the discussion develops and our points and replies become more in-depth.
So you can start with a reply to everything I've said so faror just parts of it, but since you have accused me of being wrong about everything, you should probably at least address each point briefly, making sure to bring some of your own evidence into the discussion; and then I'll continue by providing additional information and evidence that both counters what you've presented and supports what I've said. Then you do the same. And then we rinse and repeat.
But you can be certain that unless you bring some of your own evidence to the table, this conversation isn't going anywhere. You gotta give if you're gonna take.
ABE: You edited your message while I was writing my reply. I am not going to address your addition at the moment; I'd like to see some substantive posts from you before I offer up any additional replies.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 12:00 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 5:55 PM Jon has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 55 of 97 (754553)
03-28-2015 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by coffee_addict
03-28-2015 11:53 AM


Re: when change is not for MY sake then.
While the car alarm cannot be turned off, everything about 8/8.1 that people complain about can be turned off. With literally a couple clicks, you can make windows 8.1 look and behave like windows 7.
Which is no improvement imho -- I changed this laptop FROM Windoze 7 ... because I couldn't load software I had.
and part of the "planned obsolescence" that Jon was talking about is other software not being able to be run on the newer OS versions, so then your need (to pay for) upgrades for those in a never ending spiral ... in order to do the same work I was doing before (and then it takes a couple of days to learn the new button images and locations and to set up the programs to fit my personal preferences -- time wasted to stay in the same place?).
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 11:53 AM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 5:52 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 56 of 97 (754564)
03-28-2015 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by RAZD
03-28-2015 2:54 PM


Re: when change is not for MY sake then.
RAZD writes
quote:
...other software not being able to be run on the newer OS versions, so then your need (to pay for) upgrades for those in a never ending spiral...
Software incompatibility is another thing that many people often complain about windows 8 on the internet. People really like to say this even though I've found this to be largely exaggerated. As a matter of fact, 8/8.1 has been more backward compatible than any other version of windows I've had.
Regarding software compatibility issues with newer versions of OS, this happens with all OS's, not just windows. It's largely not by any purposeful intention. API's are regularly replaced by more efficient API's. For example, I regularly update my software whenever I figure how to do something more efficiently. Just keep this in mind. For every visible thing you see changed to a software, there are 1000 different things unseen that's been updated to run more efficiently.
This goes back to the progress I was talking about. It's this kind of force progress that we keep ourselves from becoming stagnant. After all, the command line keyboard-only interface worked just fine without the mouse driven GUI. And indeed, many said the mouse was just a gimmick that would die pretty quickly.

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 57 of 97 (754566)
03-28-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Jon
03-28-2015 12:40 PM


Re: Evidence Trumps Pointless Analogies
I'm certainly impressed with your responses, mainly how you've diverted our conversation into a popularity contest. Why didn't you say this before?
I fully admit that 8/8.1 hasn't been popular. And if this is all you meant to say, then I concede to your point. If you want to say more than this, then why not start giving personal examples as to why you think 8/8.1 isn't productive? More specifically, what's wrong with the desktop environment I screenshotted a little bit up the thread? From your posts so far, one might be fooled into believing that there is nothing in 8/8.1 that would allow the user to use purely keyboard and mouse interfaces.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Jon, posted 03-28-2015 12:40 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Jon, posted 03-28-2015 5:58 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 97 (754567)
03-28-2015 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by coffee_addict
03-28-2015 5:55 PM


Re: Evidence Trumps Pointless Analogies
Whatever.
I'm done with you.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 5:55 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by coffee_addict, posted 03-28-2015 6:06 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 59 of 97 (754568)
03-28-2015 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Jon
03-28-2015 5:58 PM


Re: Evidence Trumps Pointless Analogies
I don't understand. What is so hard about what I ask for? Just start listing things about 8/8.1 you find that is counter productive and we can discuss about them.
You're linking to articles to prove your point, that 8/8.1 isn't useful. But what one finds useful or not is a subjective experience. If anything, I've found that tech writers are absolutely horrid at making judgment calls on what's useful and what's not. Most of them are apple fans anyway, so if it doesn't have an apple logo on there then it's not worth the money. And also keep in mind that they write their reviews based on their very specific experience. It's like me writing a review on how terrible the sport football is because I'm really not a fan of sports.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Jon, posted 03-28-2015 5:58 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 60 of 97 (754570)
03-28-2015 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by xongsmith
03-23-2015 8:18 PM


Re: .NET
xongsmith writes
quote:
I started out with Fortran IV, then Fortran 77, then C. I have never liked C++. I have dabbled in Java and javascript. Of them all, C is still my favorite.
Took me a few months, but I finally managed to work out an equation editor in one of my apps using javascript. I've come to really like javascript. I just love how fast I can crank out a routine once I became familiar with it. Very efficient language.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by xongsmith, posted 03-23-2015 8:18 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

  
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