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Author Topic:   Windows 8
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 76 of 97 (754729)
03-30-2015 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Percy
03-30-2015 4:28 PM


Re: Why I Fear Upgrading
Speaking of network settings, they give you a link to disable your LAN, and you expect that if you click on it it will be replaced with a link to enable your LAN. But no, the link just disappears. You have to go elsewhere to turn your LAN back on.
I experienced this just yesterday! They even have the Troubleshoot link, which I clicked on because in XP that usually resets the adapter and disables-re-enables the LAN, but that's not what I got here, just a message telling me it was disabled and that I needed to enable it first ... and I had to go digging through the network control settings.
What good is the Troubleshoot link if you gotta go do it all manually anyway? XP's Repair option is so much better. (Not to mention you wouldn't even need it for this since XP gives you Enable and Disable options right from the taskbar icon.)
Regarding Windows 8, I did some troubleshooting on my girlfriend's dad's Win8 PC a while ago. What an horrendous experience.
At every turn I knew exactly what I wanted/needed to do, but I could never figure out how the hell to do it. Simple things were taking me forever because each time I wanted to do something I had to google "how to do XYZ in Windows 8".
Like dwise1 pointed out earlier, one of the biggest drains on productivity in updating from 7 to 8 is the time wasted trying to relearn where everything is hiding.
This is why updating to Windows 8 doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you are someone who does real work with your computer. It offers nothing new in the way of useful functionality and only promises endless wasted hours trying to figure out how to do what you used to doif you still can.
If you're looking for something that looks different and, especially, flashy; if you like newness for newness' sake; if all you do on computers is watch YouTube videos and play Facebook games; then update away.
But if you're doing meaningful stuff with your Windows 7 or XP (or older) system, then, by God, stay the hell away from the pointless update that is Windows 8.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Percy, posted 03-30-2015 4:28 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 03-31-2015 7:11 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 77 of 97 (754736)
03-31-2015 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Jon
03-30-2015 8:25 PM


Re: Why I Fear Upgrading
Jon writes:
Not to mention you wouldn't even need it for this since XP gives you Enable and Disable options right from the taskbar icon.
After reading your message I began playing around a bit with the network icon, and it turned out to be an illustration of how familiarity with with a different OS version can actually be a handicap. From XP I'm accustomed to enabling/disabling the LAN being a 2-second right-click operation. Once I right-click in 7 and open up the Network and Sharing Center window I already feel I've devoted too much time to this. I'm in a rush to get back to what I was doing while the details are still fresh in my mind. Learning how 7 has reorganized the network controls is not what I expected to be doing. Because of this it was only just now while taking my time that I discovered that 7 has done some pretty nice things with the network controls, I was just so rushed that all I was actually doing was looking for something that looked at least vaguely similar to how I would do it in XP.
The nicest improvement is the beautifully organized list of LANs to choose to connect to. Very nice. Who knew! Three years on 7 and I had no idea. You can reach this list in several ways, the simplest being left-clicking on the network icon. Being used to right-clicking in XP caused me to miss this.
I also wonder if this nice LAN list did not exist a few years ago when I first installed 7 and was actively trying to learn and understand it as well as I possibly could. Hard to believe I could have missed the LAN list during that first week when all I did was setup and installations. There have been many updates since January of 2012, maybe this nice list was part of one of those updates. But it's also possible I just somehow missed it.
To put what you're saying another way, gaining familiarity with an OS represents a significant investment of time and learning. Change or upgrade your OS and significant portions of that investment could suddenly lose all value.
If you're looking for something that looks different and, especially, flashy; if you like newness for newness' sake; if all you do on computers is watch YouTube videos and play Facebook games; then update away.
Right. If most of your interaction isn't with the OS, if you're only using the most popular apps and programs, if you're seeking novelty, if you're risking little, update away.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Jon, posted 03-30-2015 8:25 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 78 of 97 (754829)
03-31-2015 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Percy
03-31-2015 7:11 AM


Re: Why I Fear Upgrading
...and they have the gall to think they are doing you a favor.....
i am on ubuntu now - let's see what happens to me.
"the worst virus ever unleashed upon the planet? - Microsoft."

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 03-31-2015 7:11 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 97 (754840)
03-31-2015 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by xongsmith
03-31-2015 4:48 PM


Re: Why I Fear Upgrading
Just downloaded elementary OS to install on a separate partition with XP. It was a little bit of a pain setting it up, but it is running pretty nice now and I am getting the hang of the differences.
Though I don't really care for how integrated with the Internet everything seems to be. And this mouse just keeps flying...
On a related-to-the-topic note, I tried to use my girlfriend's Win8 computer to look up our Wi-Fi password but couldn't get anywhere with it. I can't stand how everything you do has to pop up on its own screen instead of just in different windows. I gave up after a few minutes and turned on the Win7; located the password in less than 10 seconds!
Edited by Jon, : Apparently proper names aren't always capitalized!

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by xongsmith, posted 03-31-2015 4:48 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 80 of 97 (754868)
04-01-2015 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Percy
03-31-2015 7:11 AM


Re: Why I Fear Upgrading
After reading your message I began playing around a bit with the network icon, and it turned out to be an illustration of how familiarity with with a different OS version can actually be a handicap
Yes, you definitely have a point there.
I trained as a computer repairman through the USAF starting in 1977 and started working on my BS Computer Science in 1978 (awarded in 1979). Before I was even discharged (I took terminal leave), I started working as a software engineer in August 1982 and have continued in that profession until my civilian retirement in 2017. I have worked in different languages (Pascal, C, C++, PL/I, Java, Perl, et.al.) and assembly languages (TMS 9900, 8048) and operating systems (IBM 370/S, Data General, VAX, MS-DOS, Windows (1.0 to Win7), UNIX, and Linux).
I simply cannot use Apple software. It defies all logic. Every attempt has resulted in disaster. For example, in a dance class I had recorded the previous week's routine on my camera, so I transfered the AVI file to my thumb drive. The studio had a brand-new Mac. How to open the flash drive? Where's the fracking right button? Eventually, somehow, we got to where we could try to run the file. "AVI? Not invented here!" Complete and utter disaster.
I once bought an iPod. I like it. Especially the track wheel. I remember having gotten my new cable controller and pining that it didn't have a track wheel. Well, iPods no longer have track wheels. I have no use for an iPod without a track wheel.
With my iPod, I had to load iTunes on my Windows box. Hate it! Oh, it used to be OK. I could set it to the details view (the only usable view there is). But then an "improved upgrade" took that away. Big ugly useless icons! I later upgraded again and I think that details came back, but I just don't want to look anymore.
I help a dance teacher one evening a week. She has some of her songs on an iTouch/iPod (the one without the track wheel) and some on her iPhone. I often (depending on the gender balance of the class -- usually more women than men, but sometimes, especially for salsa, more men than women) have to DJ. More than once, I tried to treat her device like an Android (my phone) and it just goes into an absolutely crazy state.
A friend at work (a fundamentalist Christian, and yet a really good guy despite that) works with Windows all day and then goes home to a wife who only uses Mac. He has often expressed his frustrations about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Percy, posted 03-31-2015 7:11 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 81 of 97 (754932)
04-01-2015 6:32 PM


I hate updating!
I am still on XP with service pack 2. I had to change my browser to fire fox because IE no longer supported my OS. Now I am having issues with firefox not support my XP. I never updated anything beyond service pack 2.
My imac at home is a 2006 G5 running Tiger 10.4 I can no longer update it beyond 10.5 Leopard since it is a non intel processor.
I think my updating phobea is because "back in the day" any updates usually meant software incompatibility and midi issues and I learned it it aint broke dont fix it.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 82 of 97 (754933)
04-01-2015 6:53 PM


Just a general reply.
While I have not used every OS out there, I've come close to it. I've never had a problem with finding where things are. Each OS is designed by somebody, and I guess I'm good at picking up the intentions of the designer pretty quickly.

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 83 of 97 (754977)
04-02-2015 12:30 PM


ESPN Website Redesign
Websites aren't OS's, but the principle is the same. After years of staying fixed on a specific website design and improving and refining it over the years, ESPN has completely redesigned their website.
The redesign isn't anything amazing. There's a lot more white space as they've followed the trend of many websites and made the information much less dense. Top headlines for a sport used to be a list of maybe 12 articles in a little box near the top right, but now they're just listed in a much larger font below the top graphic - you have to scroll to see the headlines, but now there are a lot more of them.
They've also implemented the type of lazy loading where as you scroll down the page it loads more of the page. This means that only part of the page is initially loaded. If you go to the NFL page and search the browser page for "Hernandez" (i.e., hit Ctrl-F) you'll find one article. But scroll down and more of the page loads, and if you scroll all the way to the bottom (takes a while because the scroll bar repositions itself out from under your mouse every time more content loads) then you'll find there are actually eight articles on the Hernandez trial. This is both an improvement and the opposite at the same time. It's great that older articles are on the same page, but having to scroll before they load is an inconvenience.
Another mild convenience is that the pagetop menu of different sports is no longer displayed if your browser window is narrower than 900 pixels. My browser windows are 800 pixels wide because my screen width is 1600 pixels, and this allows me to fit two browser windows side by side, very convenient because you can drag/drop links between browser windows.
One annoyance: the "More" dropdown menu won't go away by clicking on some random place on the webpage. To make it go away without selecting anything you have to click on a blank place on the dropdown itself. It's a long dropdown, so if your browser window isn't full page height there will be no visible blank place to click on.
They're using the same principles, so it doesn't look like information will be any harder to find, just a bit more scrolling and clicking than before, although I still haven't found where the columnists are listed.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by coffee_addict, posted 04-02-2015 1:09 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 85 by Jon, posted 04-02-2015 3:52 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 84 of 97 (754979)
04-02-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
04-02-2015 12:30 PM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
I think the vast majority of users really don't care either way. They made the changes, so at some point someone decided that this was a better choice.
When I design my app UI, I don't do it because one angry person sent me an email demanding that I do this, this, and that. And yes, I do get these emails from users and potential users demanding that I make the interface their way. I've had a couple threatening to give me a 1 star review if I don't do it.
But at the end of the day, I always go with what I think will be best and easiest for most people.
I think we are all aware that blogs and reviews are extremely unreliable sources of how people like product design. After all, the people most likely to voice their opinion are people who found 1 thing wrong and have the need to tell the world how dissatisfied they are.
When I first started writing apps, I was responding to every suggestion my users made. Then I realized that if I didn't piss off person A, I'd piss off person B. So, when I stopped worrying about every angry email that came in, I actually started getting good reviews.
I imagine that every designer of anything have gone through the same phases. First, they worried about every angry review. Then they realized that the only people writing these angry reviews are the .00001% who are angry no matter what.
Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2015 10:40 PM coffee_addict has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 85 of 97 (754980)
04-02-2015 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Percy
04-02-2015 12:30 PM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
Websites aren't OS's, but the principle is the same. After years of staying fixed on a specific website design and improving and refining it over the years, ESPN has completely redesigned their website.
I think what you've described is part of a general trend of placing fancy over function. It doesn't offer anything of real value, but the cost in terms of usability, bandwidth, and learning curve is high.
Let's say you google how to roast a chicken. A website titled "How to Roast a Chicken in Six Easy Steps" in the past would have delivered a scrollable page with each step listed under a bold heading. Now that same website is more likely to have a little widget that runs on some ridiculous coding and offers a little picture with each step written below it, navigable only by clicking arrows on either side of the picture that require a bazillion different javascripts enabled. And when you are just thinking the whole process couldn't get any worse, you discover the damn thing isn't easily printable for setting on the kitchen counter where you actually need the instructions.
Then you realize what is really meant by 'pretty': it's just a shortened way of saying 'pretty useless'.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 04-02-2015 12:30 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 86 of 97 (755817)
04-11-2015 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by coffee_addict
04-02-2015 1:09 PM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
They made the changes, so at some point someone decided that this was a better choice.
Oh really? OK, genius, try to explain this one.
I have a subdirectory of files, mainly text files. I need to find which ones contain a specific email address. I am doing this on Windows 7.
Windows Explorer does not work. I tried FINDSTR at the command line, but that does not work either.
So how do I find the files that I need? WinXP could have done it, but "new and vastly improved" Win7 is totally impotent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by coffee_addict, posted 04-02-2015 1:09 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by NoNukes, posted 04-12-2015 12:07 AM dwise1 has replied
 Message 93 by coffee_addict, posted 04-12-2015 10:16 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 97 (755819)
04-12-2015 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by dwise1
04-11-2015 10:40 PM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
You can install findstr or grep on your computer and then you can use them from the commandline. The link below says this stuff will run on Windows 7.
I don't understand how anyone could write programs on a machine that does not have grep on it. Apparently people do exactly that.
How to create a command-line toolkit for Windows

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by dwise1, posted 04-11-2015 10:40 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by dwise1, posted 04-12-2015 1:10 AM NoNukes has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 88 of 97 (755821)
04-12-2015 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by NoNukes
04-12-2015 12:07 AM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
grep no longer works. I know. I tried.
WinGrep and other 3rd-party search programs also do not work. They appear to make use of OS utilities which have been rendered useless.
I also tried findstr. It does not work either.
And, in keeping with the topic title, I have no reason to believe that Win8 has fixed Windows' hopelessly broken search "capability."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by NoNukes, posted 04-12-2015 12:07 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by NoNukes, posted 04-12-2015 1:50 AM dwise1 has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 97 (755823)
04-12-2015 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by dwise1
04-12-2015 1:10 AM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
grep no longer works. I know. I tried.
I see that you are using windows 8 and not windows 7. I revisited the link and it says that the unixtools stuff will work on windows8 but I cannot verify that when I look for grep.
Yikes. That's an astoundingly bad change to windows. I did some searching and I don't see any indication that this stuff does work on windows 8. In fact I see a bunch of paid for stuff that I would never use.
There is a fee gui program called grepWin that works on windows 8. Maybe that will fit the bill?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by dwise1, posted 04-12-2015 1:10 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 90 of 97 (755828)
04-12-2015 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by NoNukes
04-12-2015 1:50 AM


Re: ESPN Website Redesign
No, not Win8, but rather Win7. caffeine_addict would like us to switch to Win8, but I doubt very much that it has fixed these horrendous problems. As I said.

This message is a reply to:
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