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Author Topic:   The Rapture
Prozacman
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 49 (75337)
12-27-2003 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Abshalom
12-24-2003 7:59 AM


Re: Stars that Aren't Stars
It will be very interesting to read the research papers that are eventually published concerning the Black Sea & the flood that happened there. Whether or not this flood can be in any way equated with the Noah's Flood myth is another question. Most scientists who have looked into the matter are in doubt about that. From a mythological or literary perspective I would venture to say that Buzsaw is making sense even though he is a literalist. There are different ways to read a Biblical passage, and the events described ARE very convenient for the creationist, because the ancient peoples' actually did see the world as magical; that said, none of those events require a god or god's to make them happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Abshalom, posted 12-24-2003 7:59 AM Abshalom has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Abshalom, posted 12-29-2003 11:13 AM Prozacman has not replied

Prozacman
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 49 (75344)
12-27-2003 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Buzsaw
12-23-2003 11:49 PM


Re: More on the asteroid thing
I do some of my best thinking while spinning! I'll get back to you in a few days.
PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Buzsaw, posted 12-23-2003 11:49 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Abshalom
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 49 (75590)
12-29-2003 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Prozacman
12-27-2003 1:34 PM


Re: Stars that Aren't Stars
Pro:
I used the Black Sea flood as an example because the work done in the late 90s provides a picture of a "culture-wide" devasting flood that would have traumatized and dispersed a huge population from a low, fertile lake basin thence into the highlands of Europe and Eurasia.
Furthermore, I firmly believe that worldwide flood myths are both individually and mutually evolved from other separate catastrophic events following the most recent retreat of the glaciers and after Cromagnon entered Europe and the Eurasian Steppe.
For example, there would have been a similar but even more catastrophic event when the Atlantic Ocean breached the Straight of Gibralta and flooded the Mediterranean basin and earlier than the Black Sea event.
In the American Northwest, along the coastal areas from Oregon to Alaska, one can imagine retreating glaciers providing huge amounts of melt water that would be trapped behind gravel berms and ice dams. When the ice dams melted or the morraines and gravel berms were breached, the aboriginals living along the coastline would be subject to devasting floods.
I truly believe a lot of flood myths developed independently and remained in their separate cultures until Christian missionaries introduced the Biblical version to aboriginal populations, at which time some of the originally separate myths became mishmash. There certainly appear to be similarities from continent to continent, but that may be due to commonalities between aboriginal cultures worldwide like the use of watercraft for transportation, animals for sustenance, and natural observation for enlightenment. Read the flood myths of the Northwestern and Arctic aboriginal Americans for some interesting parallels between them and Bible literalists regarding fossils found at high altitudes.
Also interesting is the complete absence in Egypt and other parts of Africa of a global flood myth with the Sumerian theme of the Man in the Boat.
As far as "magical" and "requiring gods to make things happen," I sitll contend that the first "god" is associated with fertility (survival), and specifically those cute little fertility goddesses that Cromagnon aboriginals were so fond of. The European cave paintings all seem to depict either handprint signatures (Killroy was here), handprint sign language (informational signposts and possibly more mundane graffitti), and those exquisite animal and hunting depictions (possibly required reading for newly bar-mitzvahed members of the troop, or appeals to animistic spirits for "magic" or supernatural assistance, who really knows?).
As far as those cute little fertility goddesses go, they appear to have been carved by stay-at-home Cromag-moms. Evidence? Look at their shape. Exaggerated hips, breast, abdomen, and buttocks, with legs tapering from wide thighs to very narrow ankles and diminutive feet; and non-descript heads. Okay, now if you're a lady, look down at these same features on your own body and note the perspective of each area you would be trying to replicate from your observation of your own torso. If you're a man, you're gonna have to convince a lady to let you get real close to her naked body and peer over her shoulders from the front and the back so you can get this same perspective view. Now carve what you see. Or if you're not an artist, photograph it. The perspective will be exactly the same as the little fertility goddesses carved by Cromagnon women. This particular goddess shape remained in use for 30,000 years or more, only becoming more and more stylized in the Eastern Mediterranean area.
Am I saying here that Cromagnon women created the first god of which we have a archaeological record? If you define god as a carved totem, molten image, or other icon held in great esteem and to which one pleads for fertility, fortune, protection, supernatural intervention, or other benefit, then yes that's what I am saying.
[I might rather say the credit should go to Australian Aboriginie males, but those Dream Time figures have be painted over from generation to generation for so long, I don't think we will be able to establish their true orininal forms as far back as we are able to establish the European/Eurasian Cromagnon icons. But like most everything else I say, I'd love to be proven wrong.]
Peace
[This message has been edited by Abshalom, 12-29-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Prozacman, posted 12-27-2003 1:34 PM Prozacman has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 49 of 49 (75598)
12-29-2003 12:42 PM


Closing topic down
1) It's a "Welcome, Visitors!" topic.
2) It seems to have fragmented into quite a few subtopics, some of which seem to be new and interesting (IMO), such as the volcano and the human genetic bottleneck. I suggest these subtopics be taken to there own new topics.
Sorry if I cut someone off, in the process of posting. Such is life.
I'll post my "Too fast closure" link, but I don't think I'm going to be the one to re-open this one.
May well be closing other "Welcome, Visitors!" topics also.
Adminnemooseus
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