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Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1126 of 1939 (756018)
04-14-2015 7:28 PM


I CAN'T STAND THIS. YOU ARE ALL VIOLATING THE SIMPLEST FACTS OF REALITY AND PRETENDING YOU ARE THE ONES WITH THE EXPERTISE. YOU'VE ALL LOST YOUR MINDS!

Replies to this message:
 Message 1127 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 7:33 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 1160 by JonF, posted 04-15-2015 11:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


(1)
Message 1127 of 1939 (756019)
04-14-2015 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1126 by Faith
04-14-2015 7:28 PM


It's a simple question Faith -- even marbles and ball bearings have an angle of repose based on the surface upon which they are placed. Even those round items won't roll to the low point if the angle is slight enough.
You appear to be living in a hypothetical frictionless world where everything always goes to the lowest spot under ALL conditions. Well, the world isn't friction free.
Surely you can answer such a simple question rather than bob and weave so.
quote:
THAT is the question that is being asked of you - if the deep and still bottom of the lake bed were to slope from East to West by .05 degrees, would the sediment form an even layer across the lake bed or would it somehow all magically be displaced to the West (lowest end) of the lake? How about .005 degrees? How about 5 degrees.
Surely you must be able to imagine some minute angle that is close enough to horizontal where the deeply placed sediment just stays were it falls. Conversely you must be able to imagine an angle that is steep enough that WOULD cause the sediment to slip to the deep and and not adhere to the lake bed surface.
What are the limits of these two angles that you are imagining?
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1126 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 7:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1128 of 1939 (756021)
04-14-2015 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1112 by herebedragons
04-14-2015 1:39 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Faith's position seems to be that these hilly structures must have pushed up into the layers above because layers are deposited horizontally - which I take to mean "perfectly horizontal" not even a couple degrees off under any conditions.
She seems to think we are arguing that the principal of horizontality is obsolete, or in her words "compromised", but the only point is that there are circumstances where materials deposit in a non-horizontal way. So, yes it would be good to get this sorted out. Without that understanding what's the point of talking about foreset beds?
There is no way to "sort this out." You HAVE all lost your minds, you, edge, JonF, ThinAir, nutty as fruitcakes. Unbelievable. And maybe even Geology itself. OF COURSE sometimes "materials deposit in a non-horizontal way." They stick to slopes and so on and so forth. BUT THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FORMATION OF STRATA. THEY DO NOT ACCUMULATE LAYERS THIS WAY. STRATA DO NOT FORM THIS WAY. EVER. And where did this absolute mind-rot come from that the degree of perfection of the horizontality has anything to do with this? If the sediments were originally in a fluid condition as even modern Geology says most were, though I think Steno was right and they all were, then THEY WERE AS ORIGINALLY HORIZONTAL AS IT'S POSSIBLE TO GET whether that means "perfect" or "a few degrees off." You don't even seem to understand how bizarre it is even to think in terms of "a couple of degrees off" in this context. Or anybody else here.
When "science" goes wrong boy does it go wrong. Wake up HBD. Stop finding the fault in me.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1112 by herebedragons, posted 04-14-2015 1:39 PM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1129 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:07 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1141 by herebedragons, posted 04-14-2015 11:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


(1)
Message 1129 of 1939 (756025)
04-14-2015 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1128 by Faith
04-14-2015 8:51 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Faith writes:
...STRATA DO NOT FORM THIS WAY. EVER.
Well, since you have your own unique definition of the word "strata" (along with many other words), I have to change the wording of the question:
Is a layer of sediment which is made up of particles previously suspended in water, then settled out of the water and then subjected to lithification and thus turned to sedimentary rock "strata" by your unique definition?
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1128 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 8:51 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1130 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:16 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1130 of 1939 (756026)
04-14-2015 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1129 by ThinAirDesigns
04-14-2015 9:07 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
The idea that my definition of strata is unique to me is already so bonkers I might as well be addressing inmates in a maximum security asylum.
The strata, THE Strata, the one-and-only Strata, that Steno was analyzing and that I always understood to be the One And Only Strata from EVERYTHING I've read in Geology, are the ROCKS we have been talking about forever here, ROCKS, not loose sediments, not gravel, but those parallel LAYERED ROCKS that are seen in most of the pictures we've been discussing here.
GOOD GRIEF this discussion ought to get you ALL committed to the boobyhatch.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1129 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:07 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1131 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 1143 by edge, posted 04-15-2015 12:16 AM Faith has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1131 of 1939 (756027)
04-14-2015 9:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1130 by Faith
04-14-2015 9:16 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Avoiding a simple question again aren't we.
I'll ask again.
Is a layer of sediment which is made up of particles previously suspended in water, then settled out of the water and then subjected to lithification and thus turned to sedimentary rock "strata" by your unique definition?
JB
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1130 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1132 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:20 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1132 of 1939 (756028)
04-14-2015 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1131 by ThinAirDesigns
04-14-2015 9:18 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Take five aspirin and a nice long nap and please avoid posting such silliness again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:18 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1133 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:21 PM Faith has replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1133 of 1939 (756029)
04-14-2015 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1132 by Faith
04-14-2015 9:20 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
It's a simple question Faith, and one you could answer in 5 seconds if you didn't want to avoid it for whatever reason.
Yes? No?
Is a layer of sediment which is made up of particles previously suspended in water, then settled out of the water and then subjected to lithification and thus turned to sedimentary rock "strata" by your unique definition?
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1132 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1134 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:24 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1134 of 1939 (756030)
04-14-2015 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by ThinAirDesigns
04-14-2015 9:21 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
I do not know if your definition is complete. I gave you the definition. You really ARE "thin air."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:21 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1135 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:29 PM Faith has replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1135 of 1939 (756031)
04-14-2015 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1134 by Faith
04-14-2015 9:24 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Faith writes:
I do not know if your definition is complete.
I didn't give you a definition, I'm trying to figure out what YOUR definition is. You being willing to answer a few simple questions will allow the *many* of us on this thread who are confused by your inconsistency to sort it out and better understand you.
Below is a VERY clear scenario. If you don't find it clear, ask a clarifying question about the scenario so that I can make it clear.
Yes? No?
Is a layer of sediment which is made up of particles previously suspended in water, then settled out of the water and then subjected to lithification and thus turned to sedimentary rock "strata" by your unique definition?
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1134 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1136 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:31 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1136 of 1939 (756032)
04-14-2015 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1135 by ThinAirDesigns
04-14-2015 9:29 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
I refuse to get trapped in your definitional game when I don't know what exceptions I'd want to include and when you are so bonkers you'd even ask such a question in such a tyrannical way as if you knew anything about it when it's clear you are more ignorant about this whole subject than the other bonkers people here.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:29 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1137 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 04-14-2015 9:41 PM Faith has not replied

  
ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2373 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 1137 of 1939 (756033)
04-14-2015 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1136 by Faith
04-14-2015 9:31 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
Faith writes:
I refuse to get trapped in your definitional game when I don't know what exceptions I'd want to include ...
This isn't complicated Faith, it's the basics of sedimentary rock formation. Claiming that I'm the ignorant one regarding this process while avoiding a perfectly simple question regarding the most basic formation scenario is telling.
The question I've asked is as simple as it gets and yet you act like it's a trap with a thousand hidden exceptions:
A: particles are suspended
B: particles settle to the bottom
C: lithification occurs
A to B to C. Strata or not?
Is a layer of sediment which is made up of particles previously suspended in water, then settled out of the water and then subjected to lithification and thus turned to sedimentary rock "strata" by your unique definition?
JB

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1136 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 9:31 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1144 by edge, posted 04-15-2015 12:24 AM ThinAirDesigns has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 1138 of 1939 (756034)
04-14-2015 9:52 PM


Please don't anyone tell Faith about those oil-producing strata beneath Bakersfield and Long Beach and Louisiana and the Mahakam Delta and Oklahoma City that are completely unconsolidated. They paved roads in OKC with produced sand + oil back in the 1920's.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1139 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 10:59 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1139 of 1939 (756036)
04-14-2015 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1138 by Coragyps
04-14-2015 9:52 PM


Then they aren't The Strata.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by Coragyps, posted 04-14-2015 9:52 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(1)
Message 1140 of 1939 (756037)
04-14-2015 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1123 by Faith
04-14-2015 7:16 PM


Re: STENO'S PRINCIPLES OF STRATIGRAPHY: ORIGINAL HORIZONTALITY, ETC
I can't believe such a simple principle could become as unnecessarily complicated as it has.
I know, right. And all because you want to deny that the surface of the Great Unconformity is an erosional surface. And because it diverts attention from the main subject - the characteristics of the unconformity.
How does uplift cause this pattern in the Tapeats? Doesn't this look like the image I showed where sediment was filling a basin from a source on one side?
---------------
And here is a sketch of one of the monadnocks I have been talking about
Red arrows indicate the surface of the Shinumo quartzite that protrudes above the Tapeats and into the Bright Angle Shale. How did that Algonkian block rotate in such a way as to make the Tapeats dissappear?
Note: Algonkian is the old name for what is now called the super group. Archean is the metamorphic suite (schist and granite)
-------------------
Why in this image is the Tapeats not deformed equally along the whole length. Why is the area in the circle have layers that are not horizontal?
--------------------
How does horizontal deposition and uplift form crossbedding in the Tapeats like this?
Is the Tapeats not strata now? Is it OK for the bedding planes to be non-horizontal but not the whole strata?
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1123 by Faith, posted 04-14-2015 7:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
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