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Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 61 of 1639 (754877)
04-01-2015 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
04-01-2015 12:20 AM


Re: An outsider's perspective
I agree. So I guess there is a case to be made for a difference between these two children being 'natural-born citizens':
a married man from Kenya knocking up an American girl, illegitimately marrying her in the US, and then having the child in Kenya
An American citizen women legitimately marrying a naturalized citizen and having the child in Canada
No, they're both fine, as long as the woman in the first case was resident in the US for at least one full year at any point before the child's birth (assuming the info in the Wikipedia article on brithright citizenship in the US is accurate).

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 62 of 1639 (754883)
04-01-2015 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
04-01-2015 12:20 AM


Re: An outsider's perspective
So I guess there is a case to be made for a difference between these two children being 'natural-born citizens':
a married man from Kenya knocking up an American girl, illegitimately marrying her in the US, and then having the child in Kenya
What does the law say about this Cat Sci?
An American citizen women legitimately marrying a naturalized citizen and having the child in Canada
Ted Cruz father became a naturalized citizen 35 years after Ted's birth. Surely this casts no light on whether Ted is a natural born citizen. And your first description does not quite fit Obama either.
Nice try, birther.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 63 of 1639 (754885)
04-01-2015 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
04-01-2015 12:20 AM


Re: An outsider's perspective
Why does the marital status of the parents have to do with anything if the mother is a US citizen?
Do you think the gender of the US citizen is relevant?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 64 of 1639 (754886)
04-01-2015 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by NoNukes
04-01-2015 11:26 AM


Re: An outsider's perspective
Again Cat Sci shows that right wing arguments are not based on truth or reality. A hint of racism but no truth.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 1639 (754887)
04-01-2015 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Theodoric
04-01-2015 11:43 AM


Re: An outsider's perspective
Do you think the gender of the US citizen is relevant?
According to the law it is, as well as whether or not they are married.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 1639 (754889)
04-01-2015 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by New Cat's Eye
04-01-2015 12:07 PM


Re: An outsider's perspective
According to the law it is, as well as whether or not they are married.
Then you should have no problems pointing to a provision of law under which the marital status of the parents effects whether someone is a citizen at birth.
Put up time.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-01-2015 12:07 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 67 of 1639 (754906)
04-01-2015 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by NoNukes
04-01-2015 12:36 PM


Re: An outsider's perspective
It does if the mother is not a US citizen and the child was born out of wedlock. I assume this provision is so that the children produced by US GI's overseas are not given citizenship.
quote:
For persons born out of wedlock, the person is a U.S. citizen if all the following apply:
the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person's birth and
the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person's birth.
United States nationality law - Wikipedia
CS is deep into the Kool-aid. For in order even if he President Obama was born out of wedlock in a foreign country he would still be a citizen. Alas, evidence shows he was born in the USA and evidence shows that his parents were legally married in the USA at the time of the Presidents birth.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by NoNukes, posted 04-01-2015 12:36 PM NoNukes has replied

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 1639 (754909)
04-01-2015 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Theodoric
04-01-2015 2:17 PM


Re: An outsider's perspective
It does if the mother is not a US citizen and the child was born out of wedlock.
Nobody, including Cat Sci, is making a claim that Obama's mom was not a US citizen. Accordingly, her marital status does not raise any issues with respect to the law. However, if you are a birther, compliance with the law may not be enough.
CS is deep into the Kool-aid.
Perhaps Cat Sci just yanking chains.
I assume this provision is so that the children produced by US GI's overseas are not given citizenship.
The provision for out of wedlock citizen dads is surely designed to limit such a thing. For out of wedlock citizen moms the provisions are relatively lax.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Theodoric, posted 04-01-2015 2:17 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 69 of 1639 (754914)
04-01-2015 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by NoNukes
04-01-2015 2:35 PM


Re: An outsider's perspective
Perhaps Cat Sci just yanking chains.
I took him as posing hypotheticals.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 1639 (754919)
04-01-2015 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by nwr
04-01-2015 3:20 PM


Re: An outsider's perspective
"I'm not being serious", if you will
In that other thread where this came up I had some unanswered questions, from Message 1416:
quote:
If I go down to Tijuana and knock up a Mexican prostitute, would that child be a natural born citizen (in the US)?
What if it wasn't a stranger and instead it was a woman who I had been married to, would that matter (in the legal sense)?
I've been reading over the laws for birthright citizenship since I first posted in this thread, and I think I got it figured out.
If it is a female US citizen, then it doesn't really matter what happens, her kid is a citizen too.
But if it is a male US citizen, and the mother is not, then there are some extra things that need to go down for the child to be a birthright citizen if you are not married to the mother.
Regarding Obama in particular, I honestly couldn't care less where he was born. In my ignorant opinion, if you can become president of the US, then you can. I also don't doubt that he was born in Hawaii.
Do any birthers have any reasons why I should care where they flopped out of their mom's vagina? Like, some real reason other than some convolution of citizenship laws?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 71 of 1639 (755386)
04-07-2015 10:54 PM


And now Rand Paul has enter the fray. I wonder if it will be a fifo queue??

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 72 of 1639 (755387)
04-07-2015 11:01 PM


Speaking of primaries, or possible primaries, the Order of the Perpetually Offended is at it again:
What’s in a name? ‘Hillary’ by any other name would still be controversial
...some Americans, mostly women, don’t think the former secretary of state, U.S. senator from New York and first lady should be called by just her first name.
I think it’s pretty unjust, said Monica Warek, 23, on a recent visit to Washington from New York City. I think it shows the level of inequality that still exists in the workforce and just in general in society.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/...-in-a-name-hillary-by-any.html

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-17-2015 2:52 AM Coyote has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 73 of 1639 (756250)
04-17-2015 12:08 AM


First GOP debate between Rand Paul and Rand Paul

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 74 of 1639 (756257)
04-17-2015 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Coyote
04-07-2015 11:01 PM


Apparent Coyote/Moose agreement on a political point
What’s in a name? ‘Hillary’ by any other name would still be controversial
...some Americans, mostly women, don’t think the former secretary of state, U.S. senator from New York and first lady should be called by just her first name.
I think it’s pretty unjust, said Monica Warek, 23, on a recent visit to Washington from New York City. I think it shows the level of inequality that still exists in the workforce and just in general in society.
I think they need to recognize that, after 20 years of prominent exposure, Hillary has reached the point of only needing a single name. Not a thing of disrespect or respect, just a reality.
Now coy boy, who's your pick for Republican presidential candidate in 2016?
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 75 of 1639 (756259)
04-17-2015 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Minnemooseus
04-17-2015 2:52 AM


Re: Apparent Coyote/Moose agreement on a political point
Now coy boy, who's your pick for Republican presidential candidate in 2016?
I haven't been paying much attention yet and don't have a pick.
(And, who you callin' boy, boy?)

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