If evolution is true, where did flying creatures come from?

Thread copied here from the If evolution is true, where did flying creatures come from? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

I hadn't heard this before. Every division has mutations, but for new mutations to have a significant and measurable impact on a fetus as it grows in utero is new to me. Certainly a significantly non-neutral mutation in the first ten days while there are very few cells could have a significant impact, but with few cells it's a low probability event. Can you provide some supporting documentation?

Hi Denisova,First, I'd like to address the general thread and say that I've been meaning to catch up with this thread but have lacked the time, but I'm doing it now. Initially it looks like the current discussion is off-topic, but I'll wait until I finish reading before making a final determination. I'd like to make sure that your meaning is clear for everyone. Here you say that the genome of each new species will be a subset of the parent species, but your previous paragraph talks about genetic change (alleles and genes will be both created and lost in each subpopulation), so in the end each subpopulation's genome will actually be both a subset and a superset of the parent species. Is that what you meant?

An answer to this issue might be helpful to everyone: If you look in the left hand column of any message you'll see a link that says " Posts Ony". For instance, in the left hand column of your message I see the link Faith Posts Ony. If you click on that link then only your messages in that thread will be displayed with that message at the top of the webpage. This makes it possible to quickly browsing through your messages (or anyone's messages) to find what you want.Also, if you click on the mood icon of any message (e.g., ) you'll get an index to all the messages of the thread showing who's replied to which messages. I only find this occasionally useful.

I think you misread Faith's sentence. She said "inbreeding", not "interbreeding". Not sure what you mean here. Maybe, "In other words, in the sub-genomes there is *not* ANY reduction in genetic variance." If so then it isn't clear why this must be true. Clearly it is one possible outcome, but if it's actually the only possible outcome then it isn't clear why.

You're a participant, I'm a moderator, let's keep the roles separate, okay?Speaking to everyone now, there are many long timers here who are by now very familiar with the Forum Guidelines and with moderation policies and habits. To those who now make an effort to insure their messages conform to these, thank you. To those who even after all these years are still committing the same infractions, well, what can be said?

Many people don't realize the negative affect bad grammar has on their writing. They don't realize how much it effects understanding. Its a very big problem, and it's impact is huge. Their is only so much one can take when people don't realize how bad they're writing is when there composing messages. Its too bad when this happens, and it happens to often. Everyone should say to themselves, "Your going to have to do better and get you're act together."

Really? In a science thread? Again? I'll deal with the moderation issues, you deal with the evidence issues.

If you're referring to this: It isn't math. It's a list of genes in a hypothetical genome. If it helps, think of it as a set of genes. So this would be saying that Genome A designated "Ga" consists of the list of genes in the set: If I've correctly identified the misunderstanding then it should be possible for you to reread Denisova's Message 163 and understand what he's saying this time.

It's becoming clear now that this is what you want to discuss in this thread. I'll continue reading this thread to the end, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to rule that there should be a new thread proposal to discuss the idea that diversity was greatest when life first began, that no new and advantageous genetic material has been created since, and that each new species has had less genetic variation than any of its ancestor species. If you'd like to continue the discussion then you (or someone) might want to begin preparing an opening post now.An alternative to a new thread might be to look through old threads and see if you can find one where this was the topic.

Just for future reference, that's not an interpretation of "do your homework" that I think most English speakers would agree with. It has a couple possible contexts. There's a positive one, as in "It was apparent in her presentation that she had done her homework." But in the way you used it it means something closer to "You're uninformed" or "You're wrong" or both, and it *is* a put down.

Concerning a gain in genetic diversity for speciation, characterizations of "requires" and "must" might be a bit too strong. You're describing the typical or common way for speciation to occur, but there's a richness in possibility that this ignores.One of the difficulties encountered in discussing this topic with Faith in the past is that a reduction in genetic diversity with no associated prior increase *is* a possible path to speciation. Where Faith differs with everyone else is in believing it is the only possible path to speciation.

Hi Everyone,Thanks for the recent discussion, but I'm going to rule it off-topic. Someone should propose a new thread to discuss this over at Proposed New Topics. I think I characterized Faith's position pretty well a couple messages ago: Anyone who would like to discuss the evolution of flight, please carry on.AbE: A good candidate thread for resuming discussion of Faith's topic is Evolution Requires Reduction in Genetic Diversity. Some discussion has already picked up there.Edited by Admin, : AbE.

Whatever you'd like to do is fine. You can post a copy over there, or just let Faith know you posted a reply here, though in that case Faith should still reply over there.

Hi Denisova,Sorry, no automatic copy facility exists. Yes, to post a copy of a message you can copy the text from the Edit box, or you can use the Peek button, which will display the raw text of any message.