What is Christianity?

They have to pay you?

apart from the luxury of firing me, yes. Of course they must pay us. we punch the clock, do the work and they cut the check. Whats your point, Lad?

Okay.So if you earn salvation, God must give it to you?

The way that I was taught, it is impossible to earn salvation. Salvation is a free gift.It is quite impossible to work hard enough to earn any favor or privilege with God, from what I've been taught.Jar has always maintained that we are charged to *try* to do our best...not in expectation of reward but simply because it is the "right thing to do".I suppose we could question whether effort and intent matter to God or not.

Then whey did you ask:

Perhaps the key is found in the salvation itself. is it earned or is it given?

Seems you already had the answer.

I had my answer, based on my belief. Were we simply content with our own answers, there would be no need for discussions. This topic attempts to reexamine the issue as to what Christianity is.I maintain that it is not a religion, but a relationship.

A relationship with whom and for what purpose?

That depends on what you mean by "knowing" God. Do you have to know that His name is Jehovah? Do you have to know that He has a son named Jesus?Is it possible to "know" Shakespeare five hundred years after he died?By his works ye shall know him.

What is Christianity?It's a society of pious hypocrites.Over the last few years, we have heard a continual stream of accusations that gay marriage will encourage child molesters.And now Christians are making excuses for Josh Duggar, their own child molester.Edited by nwr, : typo

Today much of Christianity in the US, particularly the evangelical/fundamental/Biblical chapters of Club Christian are just a great way to con the gullible and fleece the sheep. It is a Constitutionally protected con job. A great way to sell promises, to market ignorance, promote fantasy with no product liability.

Is the idea of a living jesus a con? Is the concept a fantasy? Does anyone who believes(though cannot of course prove) that jesus is alive dishonest? In denial? Delusional?I realize that you believe that Christianity is about what we do.Is it dishonest to believe that God also may have done and/or is doing something? Does the fact that we cant prove it misdirect our attention? Are peas getting palmed in front of us?I will also agree that Christianity and politics are an unstable combination.

In many cases the answer is "Yes, it definitely is a con". So far no one has ever even been able to explain what "Jesus is alive" means and until someone can do that it does not rise beyond the level of word salad. Belief is not dishonest. It can and often is silly, stupid, incorrect, wishful thinking, distracting, irrelevant, confusing, destructive; but a belief is not dishonest. However marketing a belief, marketing "God is doing for us" often is dishonest and yes, an example of palming the pea, misdirecting attention and in the US at least, of moving wealth and power from the believers to the conmen.As I said though, it is a Constitutionally protected con with absolutely no product liability, requirement of truth in advertising or oversight.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin inc0orect is not spelled with a zero

And as freethinkers, we prefer cons that are evidence-based and generate testable predictions.

Having actually read the KJV version of the Bible some thirty years ago, I must say it is both the most beautiful and ugly set of books I have ever read. One one hand you have the pig-ignorant bronze age proscriptions of Leviticus and Deuteronomy along with the simple-minded creation story involving the self-hatred of original sin (yet apparently necessary for what follows), the tedious and easily forgettable lineages of Kings and Chronicles, god directed genocide and an unhealthy focus on uncircumcised penises, and the desert-baked rantings of self-described Abrahamic prophets. There are a few high notes, such as the essence of Exodus, Job, Psalms, and the old-timey porn of Song of Solomon just to name a few.Then you have the New Testament. The Gospels, with a few off notes, kick ass as the greatest story ever told as it hits all the right buttons of community (indeed real Communism), the concept of absolute forgiveness, sacrifice for a moral cause, and of course salvation. Even an atheist should admire the balls it took to stand up to the friggin' Roman Empire the way Jesus did.Then as usual there is an afterword which largely detracts, especially Paul's misogyny (a long line of the frustrated and closeted as in Schopenhauer among others unfortunately continues), to be topped off by what can only be explained by the deepest Amanita Muscaria trip in all history.As to this foundational document of Christianity, to me in a way. it says both everything and nothing like the Tao or a Zen koan, but I suppose that is a large part of it's appeal. The Bhagavad Gita is similar in tone to the gospels except Krishna didn't die on a cross.As to Christians, I can only quote Gandhi "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. While there are some exceptions, including several on this forum to what Gandhi said, I can't identify with most Christians. It seems to me the Bible is a mirror more than a guidebook in most ways, as it says anything anyone wants it to say. Shakespeare said it better than I could:The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!Indeed, on this forum I have similarly run into some who fit this description. I wonder if the paradise some seek after death may actually be what they get like a Twilight Zone episode. Some get jewels, gold, and hymns, until they become so bored they commit suicide in heaven, while others eternally learn or become a part of God.I suppose I should sum up by actually stating what my beliefs are. I am a product of place, time, and my own study. I am largely a product of those coastal Californians, Steinbeck, Campbell, and Ed Ricketts with a healthy dose of the Grateful Dead. I am largely, but not exclusively, a Spinoza Pantheist with a lot of Christian leanings, because I was brought up in that version of reality.In the words of God and Popeye, I am what I am.Edited by anglagard, : BAC>.02

Is it possible for one to be a Christian and also be evidence based?Is not the real evidence within ones own soul and heart and not based on historical, archeological, or psychological facts?jar always asks us how we test for God. Indeed how can we? As for myself, I test within my own mind. Critics have much to say about this sort of behavior, but there are also many who fully understand my
method and would support my integrity regarding such a method.One mans honesty is another mans frustration.Is there a possibility of consensus, Esteban?Edited by Phat, : spell checkEdited by Phat, : No reason given.