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Author Topic:   Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible.
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 226 of 375 (759797)
06-15-2015 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by ringo
06-13-2015 11:43 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo
"let's do nothing. It's cheaper."
For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.
You go ahead and do nothing.
I would rather fight the good fight than to lay down and let my children and grand children suffer the evils of religions.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by ringo, posted 06-13-2015 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by ringo, posted 06-15-2015 11:55 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 227 of 375 (759798)
06-15-2015 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by jar
06-13-2015 11:59 AM


jar
"the Bible stories they say the God character is not Omnipotent"
"Have you actually read the Bible?"
Just for your records.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by jar, posted 06-13-2015 11:59 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 10:39 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 228 of 375 (759799)
06-15-2015 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by GDR
06-13-2015 3:55 PM


GDR
Would a just God torture a baby for 6 days before finally killing it as shown in the King David story?
If such actions are just, would you do so it your God told you to do it?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by GDR, posted 06-13-2015 3:55 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by GDR, posted 06-15-2015 11:11 AM Greatest I am has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 229 of 375 (759801)
06-15-2015 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 227 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 10:18 AM


That's one of the really great things about the Bible, it is filled with contradictions. As early as Genesis 2 we find a God character that has limits and learn on the job by trial and error.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 10:18 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Phat, posted 06-15-2015 12:50 PM jar has replied
 Message 237 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:23 PM jar has replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6199
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 230 of 375 (759803)
06-15-2015 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 10:20 AM


GIA writes:
Would a just God torture a baby for 6 days before finally killing it as shown in the King David story?
If such actions are just, would you do so it your God told you to do it?
No and no.
Just as the true nature of God can be found in the Bible we can also find the depths of evil that mankind is capable of, and then even attributing that evil to God.
Actually sacrifice is a good example of how human understanding of the nature of God evolved in the Bible. At first they believed they could get God on their side by human sacrifice. As we can see in stories told metaphorically such as Issac sacrificing the lamb instead of his son, it became about animal sacrifice. Then finally in Jesus we have Him saying that God's true nature, as it had always been, is that He desires "mercy not sacrifice", and that true sacrifice is about giving of ourselves for others.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 10:20 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:27 PM GDR has replied
 Message 246 by saab93f, posted 06-16-2015 4:08 AM GDR has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 231 of 375 (759809)
06-15-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 10:13 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes:
For evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.
Evil will also grow if "good" people do evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 10:13 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:28 PM ringo has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 232 of 375 (759820)
06-15-2015 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by jar
06-15-2015 10:39 AM


Character and Reality
In essence and summation, we are always talking about two similar though different concepts.
1) The god character, as written and verbally recorded through man. This is the character that one might correct and remind of the rules. It is a sort of altar ego within humanity...a greater conscience as it were.
2) GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen...Who is mighty, fearsome, wonderful, powerful. Some believe that Jesus is the chosen means for this GOD to communicate with humanity...others believe that jesus himself is only a character and only human.
Our real enemies are ourselves. GOD may or may not commune with us and through us...I believe that he does.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 10:39 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 12:57 PM Phat has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 233 of 375 (759823)
06-15-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Phat
06-15-2015 12:50 PM


Re: Character and Reality
Phat writes:
GOD may or may not commune with us and through us...I believe that he does.
You have said that repeatedly. What does that even mean?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Phat, posted 06-15-2015 12:50 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-15-2015 1:44 PM jar has replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 234 of 375 (759833)
06-15-2015 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by jar
06-15-2015 12:57 PM


Re: Character and Reality
To me, it means that I have been given the gift and promise of communion with GOD. Not that I am GOD nor a part of GOD, but that I am in communion---communication---with Him and with His wisdom.
Not that He speaks through me. That He speaks to me.In my conscience. In my reasoning. In my logic. In my honesty and awareness of my dishonesty, GOD is the sword that divides truth from error, right from wrong, love from hate.
So how do I know its God, one may ask.
I can only answer this question for myself....I cannot answer it for you or anyone else.
As you may have said before a time or two...
I believe, but I also am aware that I might be wrong.
I can only be honest to myself regarding my beliefs and my actions.
each day is a new lesson.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 12:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 2:22 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 236 by mikechell, posted 06-15-2015 4:01 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 241 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:34 PM Phat has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 235 of 375 (759843)
06-15-2015 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
06-15-2015 1:44 PM


Re: Character and Reality
Phat writes:
To me, it means that I have been given the gift and promise of communion with GOD. Not that I am GOD nor a part of GOD, but that I am in communion---communication---with Him and with His wisdom.
Again, what does any of that mean? How do you communicate with GOD or even have a clue that you are communicating with anyone other than yourself?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-15-2015 1:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 236 of 375 (759857)
06-15-2015 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
06-15-2015 1:44 PM


Re: Character and Reality
To me, it means that I have been given the gift and promise of communion with GOD.
You've passed the hazing ritual? You are now worthy to be a friend of god. He created the entire universe so that humans could prove they are good enough to be his friend, for lo, before the creation, he was lonely.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-15-2015 1:44 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 06-15-2015 7:27 PM mikechell has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 237 of 375 (759881)
06-15-2015 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by jar
06-15-2015 10:39 AM


jar
I agree that the bible is a great book for seeking God.
Or at least it was before Christians became idol worshipers and actually started to think the myth it shows to be reality and history.
That killed the usefulness of it as a tool for seeking God.
Did I show you this. Pardon my poor memory if I did.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 10:39 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 8:05 PM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 238 of 375 (759882)
06-15-2015 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by GDR
06-15-2015 11:11 AM


GDR
Seems that you want to take the good parts and say they are of God and the evil parts even where God is involved becomes man's evil.
Not an honest way to evaluate a story that.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by GDR, posted 06-15-2015 11:11 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 245 by GDR, posted 06-15-2015 11:41 PM Greatest I am has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 239 of 375 (759883)
06-15-2015 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by mikechell
06-15-2015 4:01 PM


Re: Character and Reality
To me, it means that I have been given the gift and promise of communion with GOD.
You've passed the hazing ritual? You are now worthy to be a friend of god. He created the entire universe so that humans could prove they are good enough to be his friend, for lo, before the creation, he was lonely.
You are ridiculing something you don't understand. I don't know if Phat would answer as I would, but nobody earns their way to God by passing some test, and nobody is ever "good enough" to be His friend. Christians understand ourselves to be sinners who could never be in God's presence for that reason, but are allowed into His presence purely by His grace, His choice to save us, for which Jesus was sent to die for our sins. Jesus earned our right to be with God, we personally have no ability to do it. Faith that He has done it for us is our only part and even that is a gift from God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by mikechell, posted 06-15-2015 4:01 PM mikechell has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:40 PM Faith has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 240 of 375 (759884)
06-15-2015 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by ringo
06-15-2015 11:55 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo
That goes without saying.
Good people tend not to do evil though.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by ringo, posted 06-15-2015 11:55 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 06-16-2015 11:46 AM Greatest I am has replied

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