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Author Topic:   Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible.
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 241 of 375 (759886)
06-15-2015 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
06-15-2015 1:44 PM


Re: Character and Reality
Phat
"Not that I am GOD nor a part of GOD, but that I am in communion---communication---with Him and with His wisdom."
I have claimed apotheosis and direct communication with what I call the Godhead or a universal consciousness and indeed it was wise. It gave me a quick message that has indeed helped me progress spiritually.
Tell me your wises message from God communication with you and I will tell you mine.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Phat, posted 06-15-2015 1:44 PM Phat has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 242 of 375 (759887)
06-15-2015 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Faith
06-15-2015 7:27 PM


Re: Character and Reality
Faith
You have quite the sick theology. Care to debate the morality of it?
Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.
You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.
Imagine you have two children. One of your children does something wrong — say it curses, or throws a temper tantrum, or something like that. In fact, say it does this on a regular basis, and you continually forgive your child, but it never seems to change.
Now suppose one day you’ve had enough, you need to do something different. You still wish to forgive your child, but nothing has worked. Do you go to your second child, your good child, and punish it to atone for the sins of the first?
In fact, if you ever saw a parent on the street punish one of their children for the actions of their other child, how would you react? Would you support their decision, or would you be offended? Because God punished Jesus -- his good child -- for the sins of his other children.
Interestingly, some historical royal families would beat their slaves when their own children did wrong — you should not, after all, ever beat a prince. The question is: what kind of lesson does that teach the child who actually did the harm? Does it teach them to be a better person, to stop doing harm, or does it teach them both that they won't themselves be punished, and also that punishing other people is normal? I know that's not a lesson I would want to teach my children, and I suspect it's not a lesson most Christians would want to teach theirs. So why does God?
For me, that’s at least one significant reason I find Jesus’ atonement of our sin to be morally repugnant — of course, that’s assuming Jesus ever existed; that original sin actually exists; that God actually exists; etc.
Having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.
Do you agree?
-------------------------
"but nobody earns their way to God by passing some test,"
Seems you even call Jesus a liar on this one.
Did Jesus not say seek and ye shall find?
Did he not say to knock?
Yes he did and those are tests that if passed bear fruit.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Faith, posted 06-15-2015 7:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 06-15-2015 7:58 PM Greatest I am has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 243 of 375 (759890)
06-15-2015 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 7:40 PM


Re: Character and Reality
God condemns human sacrifice. God Himself died for us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:40 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by mikechell, posted 06-16-2015 7:58 AM Faith has replied
 Message 250 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:21 AM Faith has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 244 of 375 (759892)
06-15-2015 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 7:23 PM


GIA writes:
I agree that the bible is a great book for seeking God.
But I have never said that the Bible is a great book for seeking God and in fact have said there are so many different God characters in the Bible that it is useless as a source of knowledge about God.
But you have still provided any reasoning or evidence to support your assertion that"Jihadists must die," or that the Bible and Qur'an are in anyway an enemy or could possibly be an enemy.
You are of course free to dance, to try to palm the pea, to attempt to shift the goalposts and to misdirect folks attention but the fact is that everyone can see your initial assertions and in fact almost all subsequent assertions are baseless, worthless, trite and sophomoric.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:23 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:25 AM jar has replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6199
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005


Message 245 of 375 (759906)
06-15-2015 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 7:27 PM


GIA writes:
Seems that you want to take the good parts and say they are of God and the evil parts even where God is involved becomes man's evil.
Not an honest way to evaluate a story that.
Yes it is an evolving story, but it is also a variety of stories written by many authors over many centuries. There is history, there is allegory, there is poetry, there are hymns and Job reads like a play.
I don't accept and reject what I like. I understand the Bible through what has been recorded about the life, times and teaching of Jesus. As I said earlier you can't square the idea of God commanding genocide and public stonings with what Jesus teaches.
You insist on arguing against Christianity by arguing against a fundamentalist view of the Bible a view held by a minority of Christians.
Edited by GDR, : typo

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:27 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:29 AM GDR has replied

saab93f
Member (Idle past 1385 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 246 of 375 (759912)
06-16-2015 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by GDR
06-15-2015 11:11 AM


quote:
Just as the true nature of God can be found in the Bible we can also find the depths of evil that mankind is capable of, and then even attributing that evil to God.
Aint it "funny" how a deity is above all critizism - all good DOES come from god but all evil from men. You are doing the same - taking even double-blame - not from just doing evil things but then blaming AN OMNIPOTENT GOD for those things. My head explodes just thinking about the mental gymnastics you must perform...
I honestly find it sad that people are forced to defend a tribal deity in the age of supercomputers. We are talking about the same Yahweh who could not match chariots of steel...
quote:
I don't accept and reject what I like. I understand the Bible through what has been recorded about the life, times and teaching of Jesus. As I said earlier you can't square the idea of God commanding genocide and public stonings with what Jesus teaches.
Then how do you live with that? There is undeniably writings in the Bible in which Yahweh commands the Israelites to commit genocide. You just cannot whitewash that. I cannot fathom a more vile character in anything humankind has ever written than the tribal deity of the Israelites. It is an epitome of pure evil - calculating and deceitful. Even the villain in the story seems actually quite likeable compared to Yahweh...
Edited by saab93f, : Replied to two posts instead of just one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by GDR, posted 06-15-2015 11:11 AM GDR has not replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


Message 247 of 375 (759922)
06-16-2015 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
06-15-2015 7:58 PM


Re: Character and Reality
God condemns human sacrifice. God Himself died for us.
So many conundrums in the bible.
So ... Jesus IS god ... and the SON of god? I've heard of "Uncle-daddies" in the backwoods of West Virginia and places like that ... but
Does this mean that "father, son, and the holy ghost" are actually one being?
God isn't satisfied with "Thou shalt have no other god before me." He made up two "incognito" identities for those who could obey that commandment?
Of course ... "Thou shalt have no other god before me" insinuates that there ARE other gods, and yours wants to be the top dog.
I have no doubt, how an evil person could twist the words of the bible to make violence seem "right".

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 06-15-2015 7:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 06-16-2015 8:51 AM mikechell has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 248 of 375 (759926)
06-16-2015 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by mikechell
06-16-2015 7:58 AM


Trinity
The incredible ignorance and rudeness about these things from you and others here really should not be given any kind of answer, but it leaves too much error on the table not to say something at least.
Jesus is the Son of God. We believe in the Trinity of ONE GOD IN THREE PERSONS. Jesus is God the Son, Second Person of the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all God. ONE GOD, not one Being, three Persons, not three Gods. The attributes are all laid out in scripture, nobody understands it so there's no point in complaining about that, but it is consistently and repeatedly affirmed in scripture so it is a mystery we have to accept.
There is a rule here against treating others' beliefs with disrespect.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by mikechell, posted 06-16-2015 7:58 AM mikechell has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:37 AM Faith has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9053
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 249 of 375 (759931)
06-16-2015 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
06-14-2015 6:50 PM


But alas those that actually study history can find no evidence for this, or the 50 million others.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 06-14-2015 6:50 PM Faith has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 250 of 375 (759948)
06-16-2015 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
06-15-2015 7:58 PM


Re: Character and Reality
Faith
Interesting that you think God can die.
Please get chapter and verse that say he can please.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 06-15-2015 7:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Faith, posted 06-16-2015 11:30 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 251 of 375 (759949)
06-16-2015 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by jar
06-15-2015 8:05 PM


jar
My my. You sure know a bunch of big words. Being French, I only understand half of them.
Back to basics.
Tell us what you think creates a jihadist?
How do they get their mind set and beliefs?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by jar, posted 06-15-2015 8:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by jar, posted 06-18-2015 10:01 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 252 of 375 (759950)
06-16-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by GDR
06-15-2015 11:41 PM


GDR
Not just the literalist fundamental view but basically the literalist view believed by the vast majority of Christians.
For example, I show the immorality of vicarious redemption which is a concept believed by all who say they believe in Jesus as a messiah.
That is a part of the creed that all Christians have is it not?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by GDR, posted 06-15-2015 11:41 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by GDR, posted 06-16-2015 2:45 PM Greatest I am has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 253 of 375 (759951)
06-16-2015 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Greatest I am
06-16-2015 11:21 AM


Re: Character and Reality
There is no single chapter and verse that says this, you put it together from the whole portrait of Christ in the Scriptures. That He is God is clear from many verses, such as the titles given to the Messiah in the Old Testament: "God Our Righteousness," and "Mighty God, Prince of Peace, Everlasting Father."
Death doesn't mean ceasing to exist. The human soul is also immortal, only the body dies.
Jesus is God the Son who became a human being and died for us, that means His body died just as ours will too, though His was resurrected because He is sinless. He suffered God's withdrawing His presence from Him on the cross, which was death to Him. And really is also death to us, as Hell is said to be primarily the absence of God.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:21 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:52 AM Faith has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 264 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 254 of 375 (759954)
06-16-2015 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
06-16-2015 8:51 AM


Re: Trinity
Faith
Just for you and the mystery you believe but say you do not understand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VsN3IG1HtQ
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 06-16-2015 8:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 06-16-2015 11:48 AM Greatest I am has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 255 of 375 (759957)
06-16-2015 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Greatest I am
06-15-2015 7:28 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes:
Good people tend not to do evil though.
So you define killing jihadists as "not evil"? Of course it's easy to call yourself "good" by definition - but the jihadists do that too. You really don't seem to have thought out your position beyond the initial sound bite.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Greatest I am, posted 06-15-2015 7:28 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Greatest I am, posted 06-16-2015 11:54 AM ringo has replied

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