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Author Topic:   Jihadists must die, --- but our real enemies are the Qur’an and Bible.
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 301 of 375 (760185)
06-18-2015 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by Greatest I am
06-18-2015 11:00 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes:
I offered nothing in the way of changes but do suggest they get changes from within their own religion so I don't know what you mean by my offering garbage.
Telling Muslims to just change the way they interpret the Qur'an is garbage.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 11:00 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 12:13 PM ringo has replied
 Message 311 by Phat, posted 06-20-2015 9:29 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 302 of 375 (760193)
06-18-2015 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by ringo
06-18-2015 11:59 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo
Are you a Muslim?
If not, have you asked any how they would feel about it?
If not, your opinion is garbage.
Anything further from you and I might start to think that you are ----
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qwm-Dp97So
Careful fellow Canuk.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by ringo, posted 06-18-2015 11:59 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Bliyaal, posted 06-18-2015 3:17 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 310 by AdminPhat, posted 06-20-2015 9:22 AM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 312 by ringo, posted 06-20-2015 11:56 AM Greatest I am has replied

mikechell
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 303 of 375 (760205)
06-18-2015 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by Greatest I am
06-18-2015 10:57 AM


Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
I don't think the "history" of how they see a "Christ" figure makes any religion more "moral" or less than any other. So, I can say either is "more moral".
I don't think either "deserves praise," either. Regardless of how you see your god, the fact that you devote time "seeking" or "following" it seems pointless to me. Gnostic christians may interpret the bible differently than other christians, but you still revere a book that was written by men.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs.
Then why even believe there is one? If your god doesn't need your belief, then anything you do to "seek" a relationship with it is useless. Like naming a car ... it's got nothing to do with the car ... it's just a comfort for you.
Edited by mikechell, : No reason given.

evidence over faith ... observation over theory

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 10:57 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:25 AM mikechell has not replied

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 304 of 375 (760213)
06-18-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Greatest I am
06-18-2015 12:13 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Trust me, you've got it completely wrong. You just have to change the way you think about it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 12:13 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:28 AM Bliyaal has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 305 of 375 (760263)
06-19-2015 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by mikechell
06-18-2015 2:04 PM


mikechell
"but you still revere a book that was written by men."
As a book of wisdom, yes. But I read it the way it was meant to be read.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
As to seeking God, please remember that our Gods have always been humans and that God to me is just the best rules to live life by.
---------------------------
Let me explain using Christian and Jewish myths.
This Gnostic Christian’s apology for calling myself God.
Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.
When I use terms like I am God, or you are God, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.
What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.
What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Divine Council - Wikipedia
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by mikechell, posted 06-18-2015 2:04 PM mikechell has not replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 306 of 375 (760264)
06-19-2015 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by Bliyaal
06-18-2015 3:17 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Bliyaal
You said it so it must be so.
Your great apology has really convinced convinced me.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Bliyaal, posted 06-18-2015 3:17 PM Bliyaal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Bliyaal, posted 06-19-2015 10:49 AM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 308 by Bliyaal, posted 06-19-2015 10:49 AM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 309 by Bliyaal, posted 06-19-2015 10:49 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 307 of 375 (760268)
06-19-2015 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:28 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
You just walked in a trap displayed in full sight. I'm actually quite surprised that it worked at all.
You see, I used the same trick on you that you want to use with the muslims. When Nosy pointed to you that just saying they're wrong is garbage you said he was wrong.
You can't have it both ways, if it works for you, why doesn't it work for me? Why can't I just tell you to think differently when you want to change their holy book because you think they're wrong in their interpretation?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:28 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 308 of 375 (760269)
06-19-2015 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:28 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
triple post?!
Edited by Bliyaal, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:28 AM Greatest I am has not replied

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 309 of 375 (760270)
06-19-2015 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by Greatest I am
06-19-2015 10:28 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
double post
Edited by Bliyaal, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Greatest I am, posted 06-19-2015 10:28 AM Greatest I am has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 310 of 375 (760326)
06-20-2015 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by Greatest I am
06-18-2015 12:13 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I AM writes:
If not, your opinion is garbage.
Ideally in a forum such as this no ones opinion is garbage. Opinions can be agreed with and challenged...but Forum Guidelines suggest that none are garbage.

Welcome To The EvC Community

We discuss the ongoing debate between Creationism and Evolution. as well as having forums for other discussions. We have some basic Forum Guidelines.
New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
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Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

*****************************************************************
"DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU"
AdminPhat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 12:13 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 311 of 375 (760327)
06-20-2015 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by ringo
06-18-2015 11:59 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo writes:
Telling Muslims to just change the way they interpret the Qur'an is garbage.
Perhaps in general, yes. Specifically free speech is never garbage in the context of Forum Guidelines and this online forum.
People have a right to be ignorant or ill informed. I know my rights, at least.
Besides...the answer is not yet complete. Keep the questions and observations coming, however. Challenge us.

God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by ringo, posted 06-18-2015 11:59 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 312 of 375 (760338)
06-20-2015 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by Greatest I am
06-18-2015 12:13 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes:
Are you a Muslim?
If not, have you asked any how they would feel about it?
Have you? How many Muslims have you converted from radical to moderate with your "just say no" philosophy?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Greatest I am, posted 06-18-2015 12:13 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:00 PM ringo has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 313 of 375 (760963)
06-26-2015 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by ringo
06-20-2015 11:56 AM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
ringo
I have no knowledge of any conversions.
I did not claim any.
You might remember that if a Muslim gives any change to Islam when he happens to be in the wrong country, he could legally be stoned to death.
Some do get out but do it carefully.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by ringo, posted 06-20-2015 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by ringo, posted 06-27-2015 11:42 AM Greatest I am has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 314 of 375 (761003)
06-27-2015 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by GDR
06-14-2015 5:39 PM


GDR writes:
I'm interested in things that I can know as well. However, there are some things that we can know objectively and some things that we believe subjectively. There are no doubt things that you believe that you can't know. You take the information available to you and form a conclusion.
You're attempting to equate knowledge with belief; they're polar opposites.
My world view is the same as yours and everyone else on the planet that is not either a religious fanatic or a psychopath - 'do as you would be done by'. It does not require a belief in a Christian god - of whatever flavour - or any fantasy of afterlives and miracle works to know that that is a good, moral life policy.
Even in the case of your atheism you have taken the available information and formed a conclusion, but you can't know whether your conclusion is correct or not.
But we do know the truths about religions - they're man made. If you spend a couple of days researching the world's religions, beliefs and mythologies the conclusion is very, very, obvious. And we know the truths about miraculous happenings - they don't. Whether there's an ultimate deistic kind of god is, and always will be, uknown. But that is irrelevant as it tells us nothing about our fantasies of afterlives etc.
That world view is presumably based on something that you believe to be true or none of it would matter.
Of course it matters! Not harming others and adding to the general wellbeing of humanity is demonstrably 'a good thing'. And it doesn't require belief in sky daddies, it's quantifiable and measureable.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by GDR, posted 06-14-2015 5:39 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by GDR, posted 06-27-2015 6:53 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 317 by MrHambre, posted 06-27-2015 7:53 PM Tangle has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 315 of 375 (761039)
06-27-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by Greatest I am
06-26-2015 7:00 PM


Re: The End of the End of Faith
Greatest I am writes:
I have no knowledge of any conversions.
I did not claim any.
Isn't conversion what you're advocating?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Greatest I am, posted 06-26-2015 7:00 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by Greatest I am, posted 06-27-2015 8:06 PM ringo has replied

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