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Author Topic:   Earth science curriculum tailored to fit wavering fundamentalists
edge
Member (Idle past 1819 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 721 of 1053 (760356)
06-20-2015 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 716 by Faith
06-20-2015 8:02 AM


Re: progressive deposition?
Would someone be so kind as to remind this YEC of what exactly makes it eas6y to tell the strata were progressively deposited over long long periods of time?
It all started with Hutton when he noticed that the soil in his fields was slowly creeping toward the stream and then carried away. He wondered why there was still soil in his fields after hundreds of years. That's when he realized that there are slow processes and time has a very long dimension.
Basically, the things we see going on very slowly today produce features that we see exactly duplicated in the geological record, top to bottom. Looking at how long it takes to create some deposits, very long ages are understood.
Beyond that, yes, absolute ages derived from various clocks, as Dr. A has mentioned, tell us the actual amounts of time involved.
Is it the knife-edge straight tight contacts we see in so many places perhaps?
No, that just indicate a sudden change of depositional environments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 716 by Faith, posted 06-20-2015 8:02 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2486 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 722 of 1053 (760617)
06-23-2015 9:34 PM


Maps
I am displaying here a rather low resolution map of Tennessee showing the geologic column boundaries.
Does anyone know of a source for such maps (hopefully higher resolution) for the US (state by state is fine)
I've searched and not found what I'm looking for.
Appreciated.
JB

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 11:52 AM ThinAirDesigns has replied
 Message 732 by petrophysics1, posted 06-24-2015 3:06 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 281 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 723 of 1053 (760650)
06-24-2015 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 721 by edge
06-20-2015 6:35 PM


Re: progressive deposition?
Is it the knife-edge straight tight contacts we see in so many places perhaps?
No, that just indicate a sudden change of depositional environments.
Sudden relative to the time scale of the depositional process. Often not sudden on human time scales.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by edge, posted 06-20-2015 6:35 PM edge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 12:02 PM JonF has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1557 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 724 of 1053 (760653)
06-24-2015 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 722 by ThinAirDesigns
06-23-2015 9:34 PM


Re: Maps
This one is pretty good of Tennessee, it zooms to a huge size; but haven't found other states yet.
http://tennesseefossils.com/...es/TennGeoMap%20-%20Large.jpg
Ya know what's really interesting about the strata is how no matter what map or diagram you are looking at you see how, what with the principle of superposition and all, they all stack up so neatly one on top of another, flat as a pancake for the most part, and ONLY AFTER THE WHOLE STACK WAS IN PLACE, from Precambrian to quaternary, do we then see EROSION of the stack. In Tennessee the layers get exposed by erosion showing the order of deposition from east to west. It's very clear in the Grand Canyon, but it's clear on most maps. The point is it all got laid down one after another and ONLY when they were ALL there do we see erosion exposing lower layers. The whole geo column got laid down and THEN IT STOPPED. No more geo column where it always was. Not what hundreds of millions of years would be expected to produce.
Oh, sorry, of course it's "continuing" in the oceans, ha ha.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 06-23-2015 9:34 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 726 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 06-24-2015 12:50 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 727 by JonF, posted 06-24-2015 1:14 PM Faith has replied
 Message 729 by 46&2, posted 06-24-2015 2:59 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1557 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 725 of 1053 (760656)
06-24-2015 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 723 by JonF
06-24-2015 10:45 AM


Re: progressive deposition?
Knife-edge-straight-flat contact lines could not be formed except VERY suddenly, like on the timing of a single catastrophic event, not a scenario of hundreds of millions of years. So, what, the history of the earth is made up of a series of suddenly deposited sediments followed by millions of years (during which such flatness is expected to endure?) until the next suddenly deposited sediment, and for some reason this awfully strange predictable sequence of things happened to keep occurring up through miles of layers over hundreds of millions of years? Geology believes some pretty weird stuff. They even describe it with a straight face.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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ThinAirDesigns
Member (Idle past 2486 days)
Posts: 564
Joined: 02-12-2015


Message 726 of 1053 (760660)
06-24-2015 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by Faith
06-24-2015 11:52 AM


Re: Maps
Faith writes:
...ONLY AFTER THE WHOLE STACK WAS IN PLACE, from Precambrian to quaternary, do we then see EROSION of the stack.
Of course if that were true, there wouldn't be unconformities throughout the stack.
I'm always amazed at how you make statements so disconnected from reality and seem to actually believe they are true.
Thanks for the image -- that is exactly what I'm looking for and now I have one for Tennessee.
JB
Edited by ThinAirDesigns, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 11:52 AM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 281 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 727 of 1053 (760662)
06-24-2015 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by Faith
06-24-2015 11:52 AM


Re: Maps
ONLY AFTER THE WHOLE STACK WAS IN PLACE, from Precambrian to quaternary, do we then see EROSION of the stack
Except for the many places we see erosion inside the stack, despite your many unevidenced assertions to the contrary..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 11:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 2:47 PM JonF has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1557 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 728 of 1053 (760672)
06-24-2015 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 727 by JonF
06-24-2015 1:14 PM


Re: Maps
None of the internal erosion or unconformities are anywhere near the scale of things hundreds of millions of years should be expected to produce. But the main thing about my observation is that the pattern of erosion that is so visible on the map of Tennessee CLEARLY had to have occurred after all the strata were in place, certainly no long time as geological time is reckoned. If anything like that had occurred during the deposition of the strata you'd have all sorts of LARGE gaps filled in by sediments from above all over the place. There is nothing like that in the geo column.
THE EVIDENCE shows the relatively rapid deposition of the entire geologic column, with occasional gaps and missing strata such as one would expect from deposition by water, but otherwise overwhelmingly consistently horizontal, flat, stacked like pancakes across huge areas of geography, with remarkably straight sharp contacts visible in a majority of places, all of it in place and only then massively eroded, tectonically buckled etc.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 727 by JonF, posted 06-24-2015 1:14 PM JonF has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 731 by 46&2, posted 06-24-2015 3:05 PM Faith has replied
 Message 746 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 06-24-2015 6:23 PM Faith has not replied

  
46&2
Junior Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 24
From: Kailua-Kona
Joined: 04-10-2014


Message 729 of 1053 (760674)
06-24-2015 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by Faith
06-24-2015 11:52 AM


Re: Maps
ONLY AFTER THE WHOLE STACK WAS IN PLACE
Except this is a demonstrably false statement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 11:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 3:04 PM 46&2 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1557 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 730 of 1053 (760675)
06-24-2015 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by 46&2
06-24-2015 2:59 PM


Re: Maps
Funny, I just demonstrated that you are wrong.
Here's another demonstration in case you missed it:
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by 46&2, posted 06-24-2015 2:59 PM 46&2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 733 by 46&2, posted 06-24-2015 3:06 PM Faith has replied
 Message 744 by JonF, posted 06-24-2015 4:39 PM Faith has replied

  
46&2
Junior Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 24
From: Kailua-Kona
Joined: 04-10-2014


Message 731 of 1053 (760676)
06-24-2015 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 728 by Faith
06-24-2015 2:47 PM


Re: Maps
None of the internal erosion or unconformities are anywhere near the scale of things hundreds of millions of years should be expected to produce.
This is a tacit admission that you know your statement was false. Regardless of what you think about the required time to produce such erosion, you know that it exists, and ANY such erosion would be difficult for the flood hypothesis to explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 2:47 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 3:12 PM 46&2 has not replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 732 of 1053 (760677)
06-24-2015 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by ThinAirDesigns
06-23-2015 9:34 PM


Re: Maps
National Geologic Map Database
You are looking for 1X2 degree geologic quads (1"=4 miles) or 7.5 minute quads (1"=2000'). They do not exist for all of the US.
I linked you to a gov't site........have fun!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 06-23-2015 9:34 PM ThinAirDesigns has replied

Replies to this message:
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46&2
Junior Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 24
From: Kailua-Kona
Joined: 04-10-2014


Message 733 of 1053 (760678)
06-24-2015 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 730 by Faith
06-24-2015 3:04 PM


Re: Maps
No. You didn't. Certainly not with simply a MAP.
Edited by 46&2, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 730 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 3:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 734 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 3:09 PM 46&2 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1557 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 734 of 1053 (760679)
06-24-2015 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 733 by 46&2
06-24-2015 3:06 PM


Re: Maps
I know denial serves well your touching belief in the false claims of Geology but flat assertion isn't really acceptable argument. The only argument possible is what's been given, the supposed internal erosion and unconformities, which are pathetically inadequate answers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 733 by 46&2, posted 06-24-2015 3:06 PM 46&2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by 46&2, posted 06-24-2015 3:11 PM Faith has replied

  
46&2
Junior Member (Idle past 3266 days)
Posts: 24
From: Kailua-Kona
Joined: 04-10-2014


Message 735 of 1053 (760680)
06-24-2015 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 734 by Faith
06-24-2015 3:09 PM


Re: Maps
The only argument possible is what's been given, the supposed internal erosion and unconformities, which are pathetically inadequate answers.
They are perfectly adequate if you can't explain them. Your defense is that it couldn't have taken millions of years...yet, you offer no explanation for them being there AT ALL. How did ANY internal erosion take place if the entire stack was laid down in the flood?
Edited by 46&2, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 3:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 737 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 3:15 PM 46&2 has replied

  
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