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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 3646 of 5179 (760446)
06-21-2015 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3637 by marc9000
06-21-2015 9:01 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
So you don't believe what they claim about Switzerland?
Not on their say-so. 'Cos they're a bunch of fucking loonies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3637 by marc9000, posted 06-21-2015 9:01 PM marc9000 has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 3647 of 5179 (760447)
06-21-2015 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 3642 by marc9000
06-21-2015 9:16 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
So there is conflicting information on what Switzerland does. You believe yours, and I'll believe mine.
I wouldn't have expected you to make common cause with a bunch of New Age hippies, but I guess you and they do have one thing in common --- you're both wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3642 by marc9000, posted 06-21-2015 9:16 PM marc9000 has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 3648 of 5179 (760448)
06-21-2015 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3628 by marc9000
06-21-2015 7:43 PM


Asshole
marc9000 writes:
It IS possible for government wack-jobs (including the military, which you trust) to issue orders that cause massive gun carnage. History is full of examples.
So because I am a US Army veteran I am a "whak-job" Because my fellow soldiers in arms helped eliminate the Iron Curtain, they are "whak-jobs" Because my parents helped defeat the Japanese Empire, they were whak-jobs, Because my uncles helped defeat Hitler, they are whak-jobs, Because my grandfather helped roll the Kaiser back to abdication he was a whak-job. Because my first traceable ancestor with my last name fought at Saratoga, he was a whak-job,
You are not only too stupid to even spell whack with a spell-checker, you are too pathetic a human being to have the remotest respect for the many who gave their lives so that you might live to become a complete .....
ASSHOLE

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3628 by marc9000, posted 06-21-2015 7:43 PM marc9000 has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 3649 of 5179 (760449)
06-21-2015 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 3642 by marc9000
06-21-2015 9:16 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
No. Your source is wrong, mine is right. If you took 15 mins you could verify that. But you won't because you refuse to consider any data that is contrary to your preconceived ideas.
I have facts and data on my side. You have an unsourced whack job website. Gee, I wonder which would be more accurate.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3642 by marc9000, posted 06-21-2015 9:16 PM marc9000 has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3650 of 5179 (760450)
06-21-2015 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3616 by Coragyps
06-21-2015 2:13 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
They all were there to attend a fucking Bible study, Faith. Not a drug dealer's convention or a biker get-together in Waco. Why in hell should anyone ever think they would need a sidearm for II Colossians?
Possibly in today's age of growing hostility to Christianity, and the possibility of attacks on black churches, people will start thinking of carrying a gun to church. It doesn't seem as odd to me as apparently it does to you. Churches are a common target in Muslim countries and we've actually had a woman beheaded here and a thwarted attack on a Mohammed cartoon contest.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3616 by Coragyps, posted 06-21-2015 2:13 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3651 by anglagard, posted 06-21-2015 11:43 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 3655 by Coragyps, posted 06-22-2015 6:59 AM Faith has replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 3651 of 5179 (760451)
06-21-2015 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3650 by Faith
06-21-2015 11:16 PM


Enabler
Faith writes:
Possibly in today's age of growing hostility to Christianity, and the possibility of attacks on black churches, people will start thinking of carrying a gun to church. It doesn't seem as odd to me as apparently it does to you. Churches are a common target in Muslim countries and we've actually had a woman beheaded here and a thwarted attack on a Mohammed cartoon contest.
Unbefuckinglievable. Nope, the attack had absolutely nothing to do with racism, it was solely an attack on Christianity.
Do you need Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch to validate your humanity?
How do you even sleep at night?

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3650 by Faith, posted 06-21-2015 11:16 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3652 by DrJones*, posted 06-21-2015 11:50 PM anglagard has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 3652 of 5179 (760452)
06-21-2015 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3651 by anglagard
06-21-2015 11:43 PM


Re: Enabler
Unbefuckinglievable. Nope, the attack had absolutely nothing to do with racism, it was solely an attack on Christianity.
To be fair to Faith that is not what she said.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3651 by anglagard, posted 06-21-2015 11:43 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3653 by anglagard, posted 06-22-2015 12:17 AM DrJones* has not replied

anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 3653 of 5179 (760453)
06-22-2015 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 3652 by DrJones*
06-21-2015 11:50 PM


Re: Enabler
DrJones* writes:
To be fair to Faith that is not what she said.
You are likely right as I am in my cups and considerably irritated to boot. If I owe Faith an apology, (which I kind of need to do in general as I have been overly vicious of late) then I will freely offer it when I am dead sober.
As to now, wonder what's new on failblog.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3652 by DrJones*, posted 06-21-2015 11:50 PM DrJones* has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 3654 of 5179 (760454)
06-22-2015 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 3642 by marc9000
06-21-2015 9:16 PM


Switzerland
Here's wikipedia. List of countries by firearm-related death rate. Note that Switzerland has over eleven times the death rate of the UK.
Of course the downside to wikipedia is that unlike your source it can't tell me about how the dinosaurs were killed off by a nuclear war between two species of aliens; but I feel that what Wikipedia lacks in color and excitement it makes up for in credibility.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3642 by marc9000, posted 06-21-2015 9:16 PM marc9000 has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 3655 of 5179 (760455)
06-22-2015 6:59 AM
Reply to: Message 3650 by Faith
06-21-2015 11:16 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
And Stillwater, Oklahoma had a man beheaded by a Christian who apparently thought he was practicing witchcraft. So folks should also carry guns when playing cards with friends.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3650 by Faith, posted 06-21-2015 11:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3657 by Faith, posted 06-22-2015 11:27 AM Coragyps has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(3)
Message 3656 of 5179 (760456)
06-22-2015 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 3610 by marc9000
06-21-2015 1:34 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
then do you have a greater trust of government than you do free citizens?
This I really don't get about Americans: what exactly are you worried your government is going to do?
Internment camps for not being employed by the government? Serilization for anyone for not being employed by the government? I just don't get it.
What has or is the government going to do if you don't own a pistol?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3610 by marc9000, posted 06-21-2015 1:34 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3658 by ringo, posted 06-22-2015 12:03 PM Larni has not replied
 Message 3659 by Faith, posted 06-22-2015 12:19 PM Larni has not replied
 Message 3673 by marc9000, posted 06-22-2015 7:37 PM Larni has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3657 of 5179 (760459)
06-22-2015 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3655 by Coragyps
06-22-2015 6:59 AM


Re: 9 dead in SC: a racist act but God brings good out of evil
Apparently once again I wrote something that left me open to misunderstanding, although after all I've said about the murders in Charleston you'd think I couldn't be misunderstood as saying it wasn't a racist act. Never say never.
Thanks Dr.J for saying I didn't say what anglagard acssued me of.
Here's how it went: Coragyps mocked the idea of people needing to take a gun to a Bible Study, but there are circumstances these days where that isn't a crazy idea at all. I should perhaps have emphasized rumblings I've heard that racist attacks on black churches could increase, but the topic had shifted in my mind and the general atmosphere of growing hostility to Christianity is what came to mind as a reason Christians in general might consider the need for self-defense in the near future. Muslim hostility is obvious and directed against churches in Muslim areas of the world. So far no attacks against Christians here that I know of but there have been Muslim attacks on Americans on American soil that I did mention.
There is no doubt the attack on the Charleston church was the work of a racist, he said it straight out.
But good things have already come of it I want to add. God brings good even out of a tragedy. Christians white and black rallied together to join hands in prayer outside the church right after the event. On Sunday they had a packed church service as supporters came from miles away to join them. Unity between black and white Christians may finally be starting to happen. Some little things that show God's hand in this: A Christian white woman who had been devastated by the news of the killing happened to see the killer in his car as she was on her way to work and notified the authorities who brought him in. She said she believes she was God's answer to the prayer of those outside the church the night before.
There is also the interesting fact that the killer tried to kill himself after his murder spree but was out of ammunition. I don't know what God's plan may be for this but I think it's a good sign that he's living to face punishment, but also to face the forgiveness of those he victimized. There's something odd about this story that still needs to be brought out. Everybody says he was never racist until very recently, maybe a year and a half or so, grew up with black friends, still hung out with black friends. What happened to him? I hope we'll find out. He's a loner though, not a sign of a new wave of racism or anything like that.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3655 by Coragyps, posted 06-22-2015 6:59 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3660 by Straggler, posted 06-22-2015 12:49 PM Faith has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 3658 of 5179 (760464)
06-22-2015 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3656 by Larni
06-22-2015 7:33 AM


Re: 9 dead in SC
Larni writes:
This I really don't get about Americans: what exactly are you worried your government is going to do?
They may have to overthrow their government again like they overthrew you guys. For example, if it tries to put a tax on tea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3656 by Larni, posted 06-22-2015 7:33 AM Larni has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 3659 of 5179 (760473)
06-22-2015 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3656 by Larni
06-22-2015 7:33 AM


Re: 9 dead in SC
Why should we be worried about something in particular? The founders had a history of government tyranny behind their formulation of the second amendment, all kinds of government tyranny. But we can add to that more recent events such as the disarming of Jews under Hitler, and other defenseless people who were murdered en masse, such as the Tutsis in Rwanda. It doesn't even have to be one's own government, it could be a foreign power that comes in when the people are defenseless. Such entities aren't going to be visible as long as they are not in a position to act.
ABE: What's really foolish is the false security you Brits and Europeans are living under. You'd better hope we can maintain our second amendment when you have to face the fact that you've been falsely lulled into believing the world is a safer place now.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3656 by Larni, posted 06-22-2015 7:33 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3675 by NosyNed, posted 06-22-2015 8:02 PM Faith has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(3)
Message 3660 of 5179 (760478)
06-22-2015 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3657 by Faith
06-22-2015 11:27 AM


Re: 9 dead in SC: a racist act but God brings good out of evil
I know from previous experience that talking to people such as yourself on this issue is almost like two people speaking different languages to each other. So different are the mindsets involved.
It is utterly and blindingly obvious to me that where there is widespread and readily available access to devices of mass killing there will inevitably be mass killings. The individual specifics will be different in each individual case but it basically boils down to the fact that there will always be cases of people losing the plot. And then utilising the means at their disposal to act out that plot loss.
How anyone could think that an even greater proliferation of such weapons is the answer to that I find simply unfathomable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3657 by Faith, posted 06-22-2015 11:27 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3661 by Faith, posted 06-22-2015 1:20 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 3670 by marc9000, posted 06-22-2015 7:05 PM Straggler has replied

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