Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

Summations Only

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3721 of 5179 (760689)
06-24-2015 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 3720 by dronestar
06-24-2015 3:39 PM


Re: U.S. represents the LARGEST threat to world peace
Of course that is all irrelevant to domestic gun control.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3720 by dronestar, posted 06-24-2015 3:39 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3722 by dronestar, posted 06-24-2015 4:19 PM Jon has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 3722 of 5179 (760693)
06-24-2015 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3721 by Jon
06-24-2015 3:57 PM


Re: U.S. represents the LARGEST threat to world peace
Jon writes:
Of course that is all irrelevant to domestic gun control.
Riiiiiiight, . . . gun-advocate's imaginary and false notions about global realities are completely irrelevant and compartmentalized from their imaginary opinions about domestic gun control.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3721 by Jon, posted 06-24-2015 3:57 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3723 by Jon, posted 06-24-2015 4:44 PM dronestar has not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3723 of 5179 (760695)
06-24-2015 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 3722 by dronestar
06-24-2015 4:19 PM


Re: U.S. represents the LARGEST threat to world peace
Riiiiiiight, . . . gun-advocate's imaginary and false notions about global realities are completely irrelevant and compartmentalized from their imaginary opinions about domestic gun control.
Of course.
Why would they be related?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3722 by dronestar, posted 06-24-2015 4:19 PM dronestar has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 3724 of 5179 (760696)
06-24-2015 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 3698 by marc9000
06-23-2015 9:25 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC: a racist act but God brings good out of evil
The U.S. really is the policeman of the world ...
In that it's trigger-happy, racist, and has shot a lot of innocent people?
Maybe we could try being the good cop now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3698 by marc9000, posted 06-23-2015 9:25 PM marc9000 has not replied

vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 3725 of 5179 (760700)
06-24-2015 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3712 by Jon
06-24-2015 12:11 PM


Re: Bizarro is in the minds of the gun control people
You mean you have data on people carrying in church?
We have data on people having guns in their homes being more likely to die from homicide than those who don't http://m.aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full added, of course, to accidental deaths.
Call me a mad fool, but the data would strongly indicate that similar results will occur if you start making churches (of all fucking places) an appropriate environment in which to encourage guns.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3712 by Jon, posted 06-24-2015 12:11 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3726 by Omnivorous, posted 06-24-2015 7:12 PM vimesey has not replied
 Message 3731 by Jon, posted 06-24-2015 10:17 PM vimesey has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 3726 of 5179 (760702)
06-24-2015 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3725 by vimesey
06-24-2015 6:32 PM


Re: Bizarro is in the minds of the gun control people
vimesey writes:
Call me a mad fool, but the data would strongly indicate that similar results will occur if you start making churches (of all fucking places) an appropriate environment in which to encourage guns.
I could accept concealed carry nationwide if it started in court rooms, state legislatures, governors' offices and Congress--say a six month trial. That should do.
No legislator should vote for guns on campuses and in churches (or, say, bars) if they're uncomfortable with me packing heat in the visitors gallery.
WWJC?
I have to think an Uzi, a tasteful nod to parentage and an always-appropriate classic for a Muscular Christ. He drives a sharp car and expects his flock to both prosper and deliver, the poor and the rich man alike tidily set aside, love and charity reserved for your own kind. With that nice tan you know a gold chain would really pop, and he'd look just like his downtown brother.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3725 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2015 6:32 PM vimesey has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 3727 of 5179 (760703)
06-24-2015 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3714 by Diomedes
06-24-2015 1:06 PM


Re: Second Amendment
While I acknowledge that the 2nd Amendment did have the concept of armed citizenry being able to defend themselves from a tyrannical government as part of its credo, I would argue that concept is woefully anachronistic in the modern day and age.
Does it really?
Yes there were some people including the occasional founding father who thought that way back in the day, but did that vision actually prevail? Why then did we get a second amendment that talks about "a Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State" paired with a Constitution that put the Militia of the several states under the president whenever he wants it along with federal congressional funding, supervision, and oversight.
One might also ask why non of the more explosive versions of the 2nd amendment that made no mention of the militia, or that stated that the Militia consisted of every white male available manage to get past the starting line.
I think the best interpretation of the actual second amendment is that the voices who thought they were going to use muskets to defend themselves against the federal government simply did not prevail.
And how much does any one founder's voice mean anyway. The amendments had to ratified by the state legislatures. So one might well insist that the motives of the states and their interpretation of the amendments are of equal weight to any group of authors. If you really want some history, the loudest voices for a state militia were from slaves states who were deathly afraid of a slave revolt and wanted an active armed militia to guard against them being gutted in their sleep.
The history behind the 2nd amendment is very complex, and its interpretation has changed throughout the years. One thing we can say about the current interpretation is that 1) it allows citizens to arm themselves for self defense 2) that it does away with any of the historical ties to the Militia, and 3) that it is not intended to support arming against the state or federal government. Not even the most conservative member of the Court expresses that last sentiment.
Let the people who are saying "You don't know the history. The second amendment is about shooting Revenuers" cite some history. Don't put up with bluffing. I credit Faith for at least citing some history, but it is history that does not really settle the issue of whether the second amendment is supposed to be a defense against Homeland Security.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3714 by Diomedes, posted 06-24-2015 1:06 PM Diomedes has not replied

marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 3728 of 5179 (760707)
06-24-2015 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 3703 by Percy
06-24-2015 6:23 AM


Re: 9 dead in SC
More like agog and dumbfounded. You're saying a lot of crazy things that don't make sense to other people
No one can speculate about the future, without sounding pretty crazy. Anyone who speculated what was going to happen on 9-11-01, a few days before that, would have sounded completely crazy. I don't really think there's much chance the U.S. military will pick a fight with the rest of the citizenry, any more than Al Gore actually believed that the north pole would be completely melted by 2013.
so your goal should be to put your ideas into a rational context that will show you're not just some kind of kook.
I can do that, so please don't go. A lot of foreigners here, (with agreement from some liberal U.S. citizens) claim that so many U.S. citizens are really unusual when compared to the rest of the world, they way they continue to love their guns, in spite of all the murder and carnage this love causes.
What I'd like to speculate on now is how a total ban on private ownership of guns would look like in the U.S. I know some here claim that's not the goal, they just want more background checks and limits on magazine capacities etc, and they'll let everyone know what the next step is when the next mass shooting happens. But it's obvious what most all gun control advocates actually want.
Another peculiar thing about the U.S. citizenry, that they've demonstrated in the past on two occasions now, is how un-cooperative and stubborn they are when the federal government passes a law that they don't like, that they weren't asked their opinion on. One was prohibition in the 1930's, and the other was the national 55 mph speed limit in the 1970's. The public reacted in ways that the government didn't dream of, and they both ended up getting repealed. I wasn't around in the 30's and don't know much detail about it, but the 55 mph speed limit farce did damage to our society that lives on to this day.
But enough of all that, how would a total gun ban be implemented? If it was implemented basically the same as the 55 mph speed limit - "Congress voted on this, and this is how things are". A few months grace period for everyone to turn their guns in, before arrests and imprisonment started? What percentage of gun owners would turn their gun in? I suspect it would be VERY low. An unregistered gun would become a novelty, their value would go way up. The government would realize this - how would they react? How intense would their searches for guns be? Could this gun ban be repealed?
Out of time tonight, I'll might respond to some more of this love in the coming days.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3703 by Percy, posted 06-24-2015 6:23 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3729 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-24-2015 8:52 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 3733 by xongsmith, posted 06-25-2015 12:20 AM marc9000 has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(6)
Message 3729 of 5179 (760708)
06-24-2015 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3728 by marc9000
06-24-2015 8:50 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
But enough of all that, how would a total gun ban be implemented?
By vast armies of straw men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3728 by marc9000, posted 06-24-2015 8:50 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3730 by Theodoric, posted 06-24-2015 9:21 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 3730 of 5179 (760711)
06-24-2015 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 3729 by Dr Adequate
06-24-2015 8:52 PM


Re: 9 dead in SC
Too funny and he was claiming about strawman arguments.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3729 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-24-2015 8:52 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3731 of 5179 (760715)
06-24-2015 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 3725 by vimesey
06-24-2015 6:32 PM


Re: Bizarro is in the minds of the gun control people
We have data on people having guns in their homes being more likely to die from homicide than those who don't http://m.aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full added, of course, to accidental deaths.
Call me a mad fool, but the data would strongly indicate that similar results will occur if you start making churches (of all fucking places) an appropriate environment in which to encourage guns.
So nothing on churches then?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3725 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2015 6:32 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3732 by vimesey, posted 06-24-2015 11:36 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 3732 of 5179 (760716)
06-24-2015 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 3731 by Jon
06-24-2015 10:17 PM


Re: Bizarro is in the minds of the gun control people
Nor anything on those homes with green front doors with red polka dots.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3731 by Jon, posted 06-24-2015 10:17 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 3733 of 5179 (760719)
06-25-2015 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 3728 by marc9000
06-24-2015 8:50 PM


Re: 9/11 dead in New York City
marc 9000 asks:
Anyone who speculated what was going to happen on 9-11-01, a few days before that, would have sounded completely crazy.
Tell that to Dick Cheney & his cronies when he told the secret oil baron meeting before Dubya even got elected by fraud that "what this country needs is another Pearl Harbor".
Study the long history of the Bush family and the Saudis. Study where the money is STILL going. Read up. Get hip.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3728 by marc9000, posted 06-24-2015 8:50 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3734 by MrHambre, posted 06-25-2015 5:21 AM xongsmith has replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 3734 of 5179 (760728)
06-25-2015 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 3733 by xongsmith
06-25-2015 12:20 AM


Truther Dare
So what's your claim here? That Cheney and his cronies knew what was going to happen on 9/11?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3733 by xongsmith, posted 06-25-2015 12:20 AM xongsmith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3736 by xongsmith, posted 06-25-2015 1:09 PM MrHambre has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 3735 of 5179 (760769)
06-25-2015 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3705 by Faith
06-24-2015 9:40 AM


Re: Bizarro is in the minds of the gun control people
Faith writes:
As for guns in church and Bible Study, there is at least a CHANCE of defending people in case of an attack.
What would Jesus do?
quote:
John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
And by the way, Peter seems to have missed his target and hit a servant by mistake.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3705 by Faith, posted 06-24-2015 9:40 AM Faith has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024