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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 241 of 451 (761176)
06-29-2015 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by jar
06-29-2015 11:25 AM


Re: One Mans Argument For Meaning Of Spirit
It may have meaning to the audience to whom it is being addressed.
  • They prefer source over content.
  • They prefer easy answers over endless questions.
  • They often prefer fantasy over reality, however...so it takes a lot of persuasion to change their beliefs.
    Some clubs check their brains at the door. Others don't find it a problem to not know God. They must figure if She wants them, She will find them.

    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 240 by jar, posted 06-29-2015 11:25 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 242 by jar, posted 06-29-2015 2:07 PM Phat has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 242 of 451 (761200)
    06-29-2015 2:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 241 by Phat
    06-29-2015 11:35 AM


    Re: One Mans Argument For Meaning Of Spirit
    Phat writes:
    It may have meaning to the audience to whom it is being addressed.
    Then it should be possible to tell others what that meaning is I would think.

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 241 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 11:35 AM Phat has not replied

      
    ramoss
    Member (Idle past 612 days)
    Posts: 3228
    Joined: 08-11-2004


    Message 243 of 451 (761204)
    06-29-2015 3:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 71 by Phat
    06-06-2015 4:09 AM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    If they are no dishonest, then perhaps they are naive, and filled with confirmation bias and misconceptions.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 71 by Phat, posted 06-06-2015 4:09 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 244 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 5:45 PM ramoss has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 244 of 451 (761229)
    06-29-2015 5:45 PM
    Reply to: Message 243 by ramoss
    06-29-2015 3:03 PM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    True. Or maybe God really does exist. I dont see how we could even have Christianity without Him.

    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 243 by ramoss, posted 06-29-2015 3:03 PM ramoss has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 245 by jar, posted 06-29-2015 5:58 PM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    (2)
    Message 245 of 451 (761230)
    06-29-2015 5:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 244 by Phat
    06-29-2015 5:45 PM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    Phat writes:
    True. Or maybe God really does exist. I dont see how we could even have Christianity without Him.
    Did the Greeks have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Romans have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Norse have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Germans have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Egyptians have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Babylonians have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Celts have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Did the Hindus have religions based on non-existent deities?
    Why do you think Christianity could not exist if there was no God?

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 244 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 5:45 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 246 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 6:17 PM jar has replied
     Message 250 by Phat, posted 06-30-2015 12:08 PM jar has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 246 of 451 (761231)
    06-29-2015 6:17 PM
    Reply to: Message 245 by jar
    06-29-2015 5:58 PM


    Christianity As A Profession
    jar writes:
    Why do you think Christianity could not exist if there was no God?
    Good point. I suppose I'll concede that even if Jesus was simply a myth told around a campfire we could still be Christians...
    Superman was a myth. A story told by an author. Little kids love putting on capes and having big colorful S's on their shirts. They imitate their hero.
    I suppose we could do the same with Jesus. Understand, however, that much of my belief depends on Him being alive. I know I'm not a kid anymore...so I dont expect instant magic, however.

    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 245 by jar, posted 06-29-2015 5:58 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 247 by jar, posted 06-29-2015 8:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 247 of 451 (761241)
    06-29-2015 8:11 PM
    Reply to: Message 246 by Phat
    06-29-2015 6:17 PM


    Re: Christianity As A Profession
    Phat writes:
    Understand, however, that much of my belief depends on Him being alive.
    What does that mean? How is Jesus alive? How can we differentiate between Jesus being alive and Superman being alive?

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 246 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 6:17 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Rocky.C
    Member (Idle past 3008 days)
    Posts: 32
    Joined: 06-17-2015


    Message 248 of 451 (761277)
    06-30-2015 11:22 AM
    Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
    06-28-2015 4:11 PM


    Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
    You are right the Sabbath has not been "abolished" and I didn't say that it was. I said that it was fulfilled in Jesus. We are no longer under the Law's condemnation. You are, but those who trust in Christ's death are not. We are under grace through faith. We obey now from the heart what the legalists try to obey outwardly. Jesus is our Sabbath, we obey it by resting in Him in every way for our justification and sanctification.
    ---------------------------------------------
    ***Fulfilled does not mean that something is to be done away with. However, it does mean that one has done what is required of him.
    In the 1600's (when the KJV was written) fulfilled meant to fill up, gratify, satisfy, execute, realize, bring into reality, make a reality, accomplish, comply.
    In the 1600's replenish meant to fill. It was not until around 1900 that "to refill" became the primary definition.
    Many words such as "bad," "cool," "gay," etc.... have revolving definitions.
    Strong's define fulfilled as "replete." Replete does not mean to do away with.
    Let me explain something to you. Justification means to "make innocent," Once the law has been broken we can never become innocent no matter how well we keep the law from that point forward. I have never said otherwise.
    The only thing that can remove our guilt is the blood of Christ. This is the case for every human who has ever lived.
    But, understand something. It only clears us of past sins. If we continue to sin after coming into the knowledge of the truth, we are no longer covered by his blood.
    Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins," (This verse is plain enough for a seven year old to understand.)
    And, what is sin?
    1John3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."
    It seems to me that those who try to obey outwardly are the same ones who refuse to love God; those who refuse to do what He says because it is not convenient for them.
    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    It is impossible to receive eternal life if we fail to keep His Commandments. How do we know this? Because God says so.
    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    Those who have faith keep God's Holy Commandments.
    Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus
    Those who have the testimony of Jesus keep His Commandments.
    Revelations 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
    Those who love Jesus keep His Commandments.
    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    who receive eternal life keep the 10 Commandments.
    Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    Those who Keep God's Holy Commandments know God. Those who do not keep His Holy Commandments do not know God.
    1John 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    The Apostle Paul kept God's Commandments
    1Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
    The 10 Commandments are a packaged deal. It is a sin to discard even one of them.
    Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    The New Covenant makes it perfectly clear that we are to keep the law--His precious 10 Commandments. However, there was a change. It had to do with the priesthood. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah, and the tribe of Levi had been entrusted with the priesthood (Hebrews 7:11-14); therefore, a change of that law was required.
    The biggest difference is that the New Covenant promised us the Holy Spirit. Those who are called by God and who make a covenant with Him are allowed to partake of the Holy Spirit--The very mind and presence of the Father and Son living within us. This is sanctification.
    The Holy Spirit dwelling within us guides us into God's truths. And, it strengthens us and leads us to obey God's Commandments.
    It is both an honor and a privilege to keep His Precious Commandments. We obey Him because we love Him.
    Yes, it is true that we are saved by grace through faith, but that does not mean that we can sit on our haunches and twist scripture in a way that makes it a sin to try and obey God.
    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    God had determined beforehand that those who love Him and devote themselves to Him will have the works to show for it. Again, the Holy Spirit strengthens us to do this.
    James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    Revelations 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 4:11 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Rocky.C
    Member (Idle past 3008 days)
    Posts: 32
    Joined: 06-17-2015


    Message 249 of 451 (761281)
    06-30-2015 11:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
    06-28-2015 4:11 PM


    Re: Sunday worship and SDA legalism
    double post
    Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 237 by Faith, posted 06-28-2015 4:11 PM Faith has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 250 of 451 (761282)
    06-30-2015 12:08 PM
    Reply to: Message 245 by jar
    06-29-2015 5:58 PM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    jar writes:
    Why do you think Christianity could not exist if there was no God?
    Even though I already answered this, I'll say that in my belief if there was no God, there would be nothing. God is the Creator.

    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 245 by jar, posted 06-29-2015 5:58 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 251 by jar, posted 06-30-2015 1:41 PM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 251 of 451 (761309)
    06-30-2015 1:41 PM
    Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
    06-30-2015 12:08 PM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    Phat writes:
    Even though I already answered this, I'll say that in my belief if there was no God, there would be nothing. God is the Creator.
    Yet you have been shown example after example of religions that assigned a creator role to a God that was later found to be non-existent. So how is the God you created any different?

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 250 by Phat, posted 06-30-2015 12:08 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 252 by Phat, posted 06-30-2015 1:58 PM jar has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 252 of 451 (761314)
    06-30-2015 1:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 251 by jar
    06-30-2015 1:41 PM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    Im still not convinced that I created Him. In my opinion and belief, He created me...and everything...long before we humans even had the capability to create Him.
    Of course to prove this to your satisfaction may well be difficult if not impossible.
    You will likely say that GOD is unknowable, while God is a human construct.
    Asa Creedal Christian, how do you reconcile Jesus BEFORE He was made man? Your answer to that may well be similar to my conclusions regarding God as a creation of humanity and God Who always was,Is, and shall forever be.

    God created war so that Americans would learn geography. —Mark Twain
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 251 by jar, posted 06-30-2015 1:41 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 253 by jar, posted 06-30-2015 2:04 PM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 253 of 451 (761316)
    06-30-2015 2:04 PM
    Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
    06-30-2015 1:58 PM


    Re: US Christianity is too often just a Constitutionally protected con
    Phat writes:
    Im still not convinced that I created Him. In my opinion and belief, He created me...and everything...long before we humans even had the capability to create Him.
    Yet all of the evidence says otherwise.
    Phat writes:
    Asa Creedal Christian, how do you reconcile Jesus BEFORE He was made man?
    I don't. I can't. I am as clueless about that as everyone else who is not creating gods.

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 252 by Phat, posted 06-30-2015 1:58 PM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 256 by Phat, posted 07-01-2015 6:19 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

      
    Rocky.C
    Member (Idle past 3008 days)
    Posts: 32
    Joined: 06-17-2015


    Message 254 of 451 (761326)
    06-30-2015 2:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 152 by jar
    06-23-2015 11:19 AM


    Re: still trying to define what Christianity is.
    The Apostle Paul wrote 14 Books of the NT. In all but Hebrews he sent greetings and salutations from God the Father and Jesus Christ to the congregations/individuals that he wrote to. There is no mention in these greetings from the Holy Spirit.
    They are similar to this greetings in Romans 1:7
    "To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ."
    Notice verse 8
    8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
    If the Holy Spirit were a personage and it dwelled within Paul, then why didn't he thank God through the Holy Spirit instead of through Christ?
    Wouldn't the Holy Spirit be highly offended that not once did Paul send greetings from him?
    In 1 Timothy 1:5 Paul wrote: " For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" Mediator (#3316 mesites--a go-between, an intercessor),
    Over and over again we see that the Holy Spirit is not a personage, but rather the very mind and power of the Father and the Son.
    Notice in the following verses that the Holy Spirit is discussed in ways that are totally contrary to the concept of it being a personage.
    It can be poured/poured out:
    Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh:... 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit;"
    Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost."
    Isaiah 44:3 "For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:"
    One can be filled with the Holy Spirit.
    Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    Acts 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
    Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
    Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Check Acts 4:8,31 & 5:3. Also Luke 1:15,41, & 67.
    The Holy Spirit is given. In sharp contrast to Christ who gave Himself as a ransom.
    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."
    2 Timothy1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
    The Holy Spirit is a gift.
    Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.
    The Holy Spirit can be stirred up--much like a can of paint.
    2 Timothy1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
    Jesus plainly said that his Father was greater than He. And nobody said a thing about the Holy Spirit being part of a trinity, or being as great as either the Father or the Son.
    John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    Christians are never commanded, nor are we even asked, to believe in the trinity. Nowhere does the Holy Bible say that my eternity hinges on a belief that the Holy Spirit is a person.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 152 by jar, posted 06-23-2015 11:19 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 255 by jar, posted 06-30-2015 4:38 PM Rocky.C has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 255 of 451 (761357)
    06-30-2015 4:38 PM
    Reply to: Message 254 by Rocky.C
    06-30-2015 2:59 PM


    Re: still trying to define what Christianity is.
    It's been awhile since we had someone post so much totally irrelevant crap as you have achieved.
    Again, it may be interesting what you believe but it also tells us nothing about "What is Christianity?"
    It may tell us what YOU think Christianity is but other than that it has no worth or value.
    You are not a Trinitarian, we understand that.
    You are not a Sunday Sabbath person, we understand that.
    But there are also Christians that are Trinitarians and do worship on Sunday so nether a belief or disbelief in the Trinity or the day of worship is of any value in identifying a Christian.
    Now, you you have anything of substance, relevance or worth to contribute towards identifying "What is Christianity?"

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 254 by Rocky.C, posted 06-30-2015 2:59 PM Rocky.C has not replied

      
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