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Author Topic:   Is Christianity Evil?
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 120 (761793)
07-05-2015 7:00 PM


In the Multiculturalism thread, Tangle and I had a brief discussion about religion's relationship to evil. It was his position that:
quote:
Tangle in Message 1018 in Multiculturalism:
Left to their own devices, religions would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today.
In objection to this I raised the point that Christianity began as a very pacific religion that only became 'primitive and destructive' when it entwined itself with the secular components of governing an empire (i.e., the religion became used as a tool to pursue secular goals inconsistent with traditional Christian belief and teachings).
I'd like to discuss this further with a focus on Christianity.
It is my position that there is no basis whatsoever for Tangle's blanket claim that religions are all inherently evil, secularism inherently good, and the former only pacified by exposure to the latter.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 07-05-2015 7:56 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 2:29 AM Jon has replied
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 11:38 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 31 by 1.61803, posted 07-07-2015 10:40 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 120 (761801)
07-05-2015 7:59 PM


Hoping for a Good Discussion...
Though this thread was promoted to a rather soft forum, I still hope we can have an intelligent, evidence-based discussion.
I know there can be disagreement on the finer points of what constitutes Christianity and what it means for something to be evil. But I really don't want this thread to devolve into a bunch of emotional drivel about what people feel in their souls or other such nonsense.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 07-05-2015 8:04 PM Jon has replied
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 11:43 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 6 of 120 (761806)
07-05-2015 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
07-05-2015 8:04 PM


Re: Hoping for a Good Discussion...
I suppose the first question--then---is whether or not this so-called evil is logical. Is it the fault of the doctrines of Christianity specifically or is it the fault of those who attempt to misuse a religion for personal gain?
That's not the first question, that's the question.
This thread is specifically for exploring whether Christianity was a benign religion usurped by secular evil or whether it was always evil and only pacified recently through contact with Enlightenment secularism.
My position is pretty clear: there is nothing to convince me that early Christianity was an evil religion and plenty to suggest that its vices arose as the result of its earthly (= secular) involvement in running an empire. My position is that Christianity offers an example that fully contradicts Tangle's claim.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 07-05-2015 8:04 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 11:50 AM Jon has not replied
 Message 119 by Greatest I am, posted 10-12-2015 4:02 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 120 (761944)
07-06-2015 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
07-06-2015 2:29 AM


Sheesh. A least give a tiny amount of context...
The context adds nothing. Your claim is still that:
Left to their own devices, religions would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today.
You also made the claim that (Message 1025):
It is supported by the evidence [that religions are inherently violent and only become non-violent through tempering by irreligion and secularism] - there's actually a lot of it.
Now's your chance to present that evidence.
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2015 2:29 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 120 (762048)
07-07-2015 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Tangle
07-07-2015 5:13 PM


Re: Division
The evil is definately superimposed but it's also intrinsic, as soon as someone says that only my way is the right way, everything else follows.
Again, where's your evidence?
It's not even remotely evil for people to disagree or feel right.
What's more, the 'superimposed' evil (which you readily admit to) was largely from secularat the very least non-Christiansociety, such as the concerns of running an empire, building wealth, etc. All sorts of stuff that had nothing to do with Christianity before Constantine got it wrapped up in Rome.
Right now your claim that "[l]eft to their own devices, religions would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today" is looking like a pretty good load of nonsense.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Tangle, posted 07-07-2015 5:13 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Tangle, posted 07-08-2015 2:08 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 120 (762061)
07-08-2015 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Tangle
07-08-2015 2:08 AM


Re: Division
Jon, Christianity without people and their interpretation of it doesn't actually exist does it?
Of course not.
But luckily I never said that it does.
Now instead of stalling, how about you present some evidence?
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Tangle, posted 07-08-2015 2:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Tangle, posted 07-08-2015 9:11 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 56 of 120 (762087)
07-08-2015 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Tangle
07-08-2015 9:11 AM


Re: Division
I mostly started this thread to see your evidence that "[l]eft to their own devices, religions would be as primitive and destructive as extreem Islam is today".
Remember you said there was evidence? In fact, you said that "there's actually a lot of it" (Message 1025).
So where is it, Tangle?
Where's your evidence?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Tangle, posted 07-08-2015 9:11 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Tangle, posted 07-08-2015 11:39 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 120 (769523)
09-21-2015 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Tangle
09-21-2015 6:37 PM


This idea that only the religious do unselfish things is crazy, and a tad insulting.
But is it evil?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Tangle, posted 09-21-2015 6:37 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 09-21-2015 11:27 PM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 90 of 120 (769658)
09-23-2015 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
09-23-2015 2:10 AM


Re: Untangling the mystery
Why are most courses taught by one teacher?
My best classes were typically taught by more than one teacher.
Perhaps with the exception of my New Testament class taught by the Rev. Dr. Michael Wyatt which I believe stands above all my courses as the best classroom experience I've had in my adult life.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 09-23-2015 2:10 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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