Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Does God demand equality?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 3 of 60 (761223)
06-29-2015 5:16 PM


Yawn.
The Episcopal Church just elected their new Presiding Bishop. A black man replaced a white woman.
You really need an education.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 5:26 PM jar has replied
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 06-29-2015 6:56 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 60 (761228)
06-29-2015 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
06-29-2015 5:26 PM


Re: Can Education Help Salvation?
I very strongly doubt GIA has a clue what a Gnostic God or even Gnosticism really is.
But the Gnostics were far more concrned with some concept of a spiritual world instead of the material world.
Many of today's evangelical and fundamentalist churches are far more gnostic than they would admit; for example believing in stuff like Jesus is alive today, communing with God, spiritual impartation of knowledge, gifts through laying on of hands, being touched by the spirit and other such gnostic traditions.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 06-29-2015 5:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 06-29-2015 7:52 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 15 of 60 (761243)
06-29-2015 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Greatest I am
06-29-2015 6:56 PM


Yawn.
GIA writes:
So to you, that one bit of success for women's rights makes the misogyny of Christianity and Islam ignorable eh. Ok.
Neither Christianity nor Islam can be misogynous. Sorry but they are inanimate objects. It makes as much sense to claim a lamppost is misogynous.
People can and have been misogynous, Muslims, Christians, atheists, Taoists, Hindus, animists, Satanists, Greeks, Romans, Celts, ...
The example I provided though is more than sufficient to falsify your assertion. It is a clear example of a Christian religion that has accepted women in all roles, blacks in all roles, supports gay rights, and also understands that reality is more complex than a bumper sticker and that ignorance can be cured and that there is no reason to check your brain at the door.
Gods are free to suggest, to encourage, to promote but have never had the power to command.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 06-29-2015 6:56 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Greatest I am, posted 06-30-2015 3:15 PM jar has replied
 Message 57 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 12:09 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 60 (761245)
06-29-2015 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
06-29-2015 7:52 PM


Re: Can Education Help Salvation?
GIA writes:
Access to the spiritual world, which most get though the opening of our third eye, must thus come from the physical world that we see as the best of all possible worlds.
As I said, you seem clueless. What the hell does any of that mean? Which ophthalmologist treats third eyes?
Crap like that may work at the carny or from the back of a medicine truck but it is still just bullshit and word salad.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 06-29-2015 7:52 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Greatest I am, posted 06-30-2015 3:18 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 21 of 60 (761362)
06-30-2015 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Greatest I am
06-30-2015 3:15 PM


GIA writes:
God have a right to command to those who believe in them and idol worship them.
And Christianity and Islam are homophobic and misogynous as they have institutionalized both of those issues within their text.
If all you have is hair splitting and trying to separate Christians from Christianity and Muslims from Islam then ------.
Regards
DL
I'm sorry but again you simply post sophomoric nonsense and utter falsehoods. I have already proved that Christianity is neither homophobic or misogynous based on behavior, not some stories written thousands of years ago.
So let's see if we can actually deal with reality instead of fantasy.
I am a Christian. The chapter of Club Christian to which I belong does not discriminate based on race, sex or sexual orientation. It has ordained women, men, white, black, gay and straight.
You have said Christianity is homophobic and misogynous. I refuted that position. For you to continue to make the assertion that Christianity is homophobic and misogynous is simply dishonest.
Now if you would like to change your position to say that some Christian chapters can be and are homophobic and misogynous then I would agree with you, however the issue is not Christianity or Islam but rather education.
When you are prepared to learn more about the issues of education in the US please let me know and I will repeat for you what I have posted in the past.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Greatest I am, posted 06-30-2015 3:15 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Greatest I am, posted 07-01-2015 3:54 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 28 of 60 (761516)
07-02-2015 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Greatest I am
07-01-2015 3:54 PM


GIA writes:
I am not even aware of your little cult and my remarks are towards the mainstream.
Good. Admitting your ignorance is a first step towards learning.
The little cult I belong to is called the Episcopal Church USA (also known as Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America) was founded in 1789 and is a part of the Anglican Communion that also includes the Church of England. In the US there are about 2,000,000 members.
GIA writes:
How old is your cult and for how long have you allowed practicing gays to preach?
Well, it seems very likely that King James I & VI (of the Authorized King James Bible fame) was gay.
But for our chapter of the Anglican Communion, we ordained our first openly gay Priest (a lesbian named Ellen Barrett by the way) in 1977 which was just three years after the first women were ordained Priests in the Episcopal Church.
Progress has been slow of course and those who hold other positions are still tolerated but just a few days ago on 29 June 2015, at the 78th General Convention of the Episcopal Church, a resolution removing the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman was passed by the House of Bishops, 129-26 with 5 abstaining.
GIA writes:
Does whatever bible you use have this Gen 3;16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Of course. The Western Canon has been set for a long time.
But what does that have to do with anything? It also has the two mutually exclusive creation tales and the two mutually exclusive flood myths and lots of other stuff.
But many things found in Bible stories just tell us how a people of a particular culture, period and mythos viewed their world.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Greatest I am, posted 07-01-2015 3:54 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Greatest I am, posted 07-02-2015 1:57 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 33 of 60 (761576)
07-02-2015 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Greatest I am
07-02-2015 1:57 PM


more learning opportunities.
GIA writes:
A question on your House of Bishops. How many men and how many women in it?
I honestly have no idea but imagine there are many more men Bishops than women Bishops. The Episcopal Church is not a secret organization though and they even have a website where you can get some information and contact them for additional information. It is one of the two "Houses" that make decisions and that is the much larger House of Deputies.
GIA writes:
Nice that you are not literalist readers of all scriptures, but you still must read some literally if you are to maintain a belief in Jesus.
Which begs the question on Jesus as your savior and scapegoat and the morality of it.
Care to debate that here or in a new O.P.
Well, I need to believe that someone named Jesus probably lived and likely taught something like what is recorded in the stories but not much more that I can think of.
But again, when you mention "Jesus as your savior and scapegoat" you are just once again showing your ignorance and creating a strawman so I'm not sure what there really is to debate?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Greatest I am, posted 07-02-2015 1:57 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Greatest I am, posted 07-04-2015 9:58 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 37 of 60 (761692)
07-04-2015 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Greatest I am
07-04-2015 9:58 AM


Re: more learning opportunities.
I understand that you don't agree but that is because you still have so much to learn.
In the historic Hebrew sacrifice tradition there were two examples, the sacrificial lamb and the scape goat. They were not the same thing. The sacrificial lamb was killed (and eaten) while the sins of the community were symbolically placed on the scape goat that was then released out into the desert to carry away the communities sins. It was not killed.
GIA writes:
I do not agree that what I say is ignorant or a straw-man. It is pure Christian dogma and one of their more immoral concepts.
Again, you simply show your ignorance. There is no one thing we can call Christian Dogma. Different chapters of Club Christian have their own sets of dogma which often differs significantly from other chapters.
GIA writes:
If Jesus is not your savior and scapegoat, what is he?
The idea that Jesus death was some sacrifice to pay for others sins is not just immoral but makes God look stupid. Jesus was (according to the stories) born of a woman and anything born of a woman is going to die. So far all of the evidence supports that assertion.
Second, Jesus death was not anything really unusual, there were at least two others killed in the same way that same day on the same hill.
Third, if God was capable of forgiving man's failings, then God could certainly do that without all the show.
Fourth, Jesus was not the only person raised from the dead in the Bible stories or even the only person that ascended into heaven in those stories.
Fifth, the concept of Jesus death paying for sins, while very marketable, seems to be nothing but a cop out.
Sixth, the concept of Jesus' death as a sacrificial lamb (note the difference) simply cheapens and diminishes the value and meaning of His life and message.
I will gladly expand this lesson once you show you understand what I have presented so far.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Greatest I am, posted 07-04-2015 9:58 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Greatest I am, posted 07-04-2015 5:59 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 60 (761733)
07-04-2015 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Greatest I am
07-04-2015 5:59 PM


Re: more learning opportunities.
Too funny.
Where did I say I had no need of a savior?
What does that have to do with whether or not there is a God?
What does any of your posts have to do with the topic?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Greatest I am, posted 07-04-2015 5:59 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-05-2015 8:55 AM jar has replied
 Message 47 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 10:51 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 60 (761763)
07-05-2015 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
07-05-2015 8:55 AM


Re: more learning opportunities.
Phat writes:
IIRC, you have mentioned that salvation is a gift.
You have also said, IIRC, that We are responsible to try to do our best---on a daily basis.
Thus your idea of salvation is arrived at through doing.
Again, perhaps you should stick to explaining what you believe since you seem to be always wrong when you try to explain what I believe.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 07-05-2015 8:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 11:06 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 60 (761865)
07-06-2015 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Greatest I am
07-06-2015 10:51 AM


Re: more learning opportunities.
GIA writes:
If you need a savior, what have you done that deserves infinite punishment.
Please point out where I said anything about infinite punishment or stop just making shit up.
I will gladly expand this lesson once you show you understand what I have presented so far.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 10:51 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 11:12 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 54 of 60 (761873)
07-06-2015 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Greatest I am
07-06-2015 11:06 AM


Re: more learning opportunities.
Again, your ignorance is showing since I most certainly have explained many time what I believe is right and why I believe it is right.
But I will continue to try to educate you.
I believe there is a God that created all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe that there will be an afterlife.
I believe I will be judged and the Jesus will be the person judging me based on my behavior.
I know that I have and likely will never be able to do what I should do.
I believe that Jesus was God making a supreme sacrifice for us, not by His death (as I explained anyone born of woman will inevitably die) but by his life and teaching.
The sacrifice was God becoming man, a baby unable to focus or feed himself or control his bowels, as dirt ignorant as any newborn and as helpless, having to learn to walk or talk or go potty, suffering all the things we all suffer, teething, being different, mocked, bullied.
So I believe that while living among us Jesus was just man, not god/man, not some chimera but just a human.
What greater sacrifice could there be than a God who can do anything becoming just a man who can do nothing?
Now to try to address the actual topic which if you can remember is "Does God demand equality?" I believe there can be no right answer to an absurdly and poorly thought out question.
The Bible is filled with examples that are totally contradictory on that subject and if you wish further education we can proceed.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 11:06 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 12:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 58 of 60 (761908)
07-06-2015 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Greatest I am
07-06-2015 12:02 PM


Re: more learning opportunities.
GIA writes:
I have an argument that needs refuting if your education of me is to continue.
Human sacrifice is evil and your God demanding one and accepting one is evil.
You trying to profit from that evil is evil. Do just a bit of thinking and you will agree.
As I have said, the first step is for you to convince me that you even can understand what I have already provided.
Please go back and reread what I have already posted in this thread where I have already addressed your assertion that really has absolutely nothing to do with the topic anyway.
Once you can demonstrate that you understand what I have already explained to you we can try to proceed but first I need to know you understand the basics.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 12:02 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 59 of 60 (761909)
07-06-2015 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Greatest I am
07-06-2015 12:09 PM


Yawn.
You do love trying to move the goal posts and misrepresent what people say.
Learn.
Which set of commandments?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 12:09 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Greatest I am, posted 07-06-2015 1:39 PM jar has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024