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Author Topic:   Evidence that the Great Unconformity did not Form Before the Strata above it
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1831 of 1939 (762236)
07-09-2015 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1830 by edge
07-09-2015 6:17 PM


Re: Images from the Experiment
I'm sure you're right about that.

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 Message 1830 by edge, posted 07-09-2015 6:17 PM edge has replied

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edge
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1832 of 1939 (762239)
07-09-2015 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1831 by Faith
07-09-2015 6:19 PM


Re: Images from the Experiment
I'm sure you're right about that.

Please refer to my edits and explain.

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Minnemooseus
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Posts: 3883
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 1833 of 1939 (762241)
07-09-2015 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1822 by Faith
07-09-2015 2:29 PM


It's a diagram
Note in this diagram of the Kaibab Monocline that the thicknesses of the strata vary slightly along the length of a layer but do not accumulate more thickly on the horizontal parts.

I don't know if this is a significant issue, but I must stress the "this diagram" part. You're over-interpreting things - This is not intended as being a precise rendering of reality. Your thickness variations are probably, at most, some sloppiness in the document drafting.

Moose


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edge
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1834 of 1939 (762244)
07-09-2015 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1833 by Minnemooseus
07-09-2015 8:05 PM


Re: It's a diagram
I don't know if this is a significant issue, but I must stress the "this diagram" part. You're over-interpreting things - This is not intended as being a precise rendering of reality. Your thickness variations are probably, at most, some sloppiness in the document drafting.

The source of the diagram look like it is intended to be schematic. And I REALLY don't like the way they depicted the basement topography around the faults...

Having said that, it would not surprise me at all to have some thickening and thinning of the sedimentary layers above the basement crystalline rocks.

This reference:

http://sp.lyellcollection.org/content/169/1/23.abstract

... indicates, along with some others that I have found, that the degree and brittleness of the deformation diminish upward. The Tapeats is clearly faulted but the layers above it are folded by 'flexural slip' meaning that bedding planes slid over one another and there were probably minor faults that cut bedding. This type of deformation would result in some thickening and thinning of formations.

This publications shows some more detailed information on the East Kaibab Monocline and the deformation occurring there:

http://earthquakes.ou.edu/.../Reches_monoclines_part%20I.PDF

See Figure 5.

On reference suggested that the Cretaceous Wahweap Formation shows that the deformation occurred at that time because of thickening to the southeast across the fault/fold zone.

Edited by edge, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1835 of 1939 (762248)
07-09-2015 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1833 by Minnemooseus
07-09-2015 8:05 PM


Re: It's a diagram
Of course it's a diagram. There's really no point in even mentioning the thicknesses except they've been indicated on the diagram and we're discussing whether greater thickness would be the result of deposition onto a slope. There is no indication of greater thickness on the horizontal parts of the diagram, just the small variations along the length of the layers.

Percy announced a rule. I'm announcing my own: none of the strata of the sort known in the Grand Canyon ever deposited except horizontally. Weary of the way everything I say is dealt with here.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1836 of 1939 (762249)
07-09-2015 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1832 by edge
07-09-2015 6:51 PM


Re: Images from the Experiment
I'm sure you're right about me being right.

As for your edits you added a totally incomprehensible picture of an unidentified something. Yes it's always possible to find a picture of something somewhere that supposedly contradicts any given general statement. You seem to like that method of debate.


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edge
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1837 of 1939 (762252)
07-09-2015 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1836 by Faith
07-09-2015 10:30 PM


Re: Images from the Experiment
I'm sure you're right about me being right.

As for your edits you added a totally incomprehensible picture of an unidentified something. Yes it's always possible to find a picture of something somewhere that supposedly contradicts any given general statement.


And some statements are easy to contradict.

Because they are wrong.

You seem to like that method of debate.

Well, you could have asked.

They're just facts, Faith, just facts.


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edge
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1838 of 1939 (762253)
07-09-2015 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1835 by Faith
07-09-2015 10:28 PM


Re: It's a diagram
Of course it's a diagram. There's really no point in even mentioning the thicknesses except they've been indicated on the diagram ...

Not sure what you are talking about here. Where are the thicknesses indicated?

... and we're discussing whether greater thickness would be the result of deposition onto a slope.

Actually, no. We were discussing whether sediments could be deposited on a slope at all.

There is no indication of greater thickness on the horizontal parts of the diagram, just the small variations along the length of the layers.

I agree, however, as Moose indicated, you are over-interpreting a schematic diagram.

Percy announced a rule. I'm announcing my own: none of the strata of the sort known in the Grand Canyon ever deposited except horizontally.

Actually, I think you said it NEVER happened.

Anywhere.

Weary of the way everything I say is dealt with here.

There are ways of fixing that.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 763 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 1839 of 1939 (762255)
07-09-2015 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1838 by edge
07-09-2015 10:52 PM


Re: It's a diagram
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Admin
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Posts: 12814
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 1840 of 1939 (762268)
07-10-2015 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1835 by Faith
07-09-2015 10:28 PM


Faith Suspended 24 hours
Faith writes:

Percy announced a rule. I'm announcing my own: none of the strata of the sort known in the Grand Canyon ever deposited except horizontally. Weary of the way everything I say is dealt with here.

Your own experiment demonstrated that this isn't true, that sediments can deposit on a slope. You can deny the results of your own experiment, but I have already ruled on this point. If you would like to discuss this further then you should propose a new topic over at Proposed New Topics.

Given that I have been very, very clear about this in my recent messages I am suspending you for 24 hours.

Please, no replies to this message.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Admin
Director
Posts: 12814
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 1841 of 1939 (762276)
07-10-2015 11:48 AM


Sedimentation on a slope, take 2
While running errands this morning I bought a few supplies, and upon returning home I repeated the "sedimentation on a slope" experiment. Here's the tank before adding any sediments:

Here's the first layer of sediments:

And here's the second:


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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edge
Member (Idle past 1025 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1842 of 1939 (762284)
07-10-2015 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1841 by Admin
07-10-2015 11:48 AM


Re: Sedimentation on a slope, take 2
While running errands this morning I bought a few supplies, and upon returning home I repeated the "sedimentation on a slope" experiment. Here's the tank before adding any sediments:

...


Very nice.

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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1843 of 1939 (762287)
07-10-2015 12:26 PM


Gosh all hemlock, pretty much even thickness throughout!

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jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1844 of 1939 (762293)
07-10-2015 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1843 by JonF
07-10-2015 12:26 PM


And even examples of material being deposited on a slope outside the tank. Sheesh.

Edited by jar, : left out "on a slope"


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Admin
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Posts: 12814
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 1845 of 1939 (762339)
07-11-2015 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1812 by Faith
07-08-2015 1:02 PM


Re: Images from the Experiment
Faith writes:

HERE's another copy of the picture, a bit larger to show more detail, but not as large as it can get:

Is it possible you used Magic Sand for your upper layer:

It has a coating that makes it hydrophobic.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Replies to this message:
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