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Author Topic:   Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 30 (762436)
07-11-2015 10:56 PM


Who ruled heaven on this day. God or Satan?

This quote speaks of God choosing Jesus as a human sacrifice to take our just punishment for our sins. Dogma says that we cannot redeem ourselves from God condemnation. 1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

The above quote shows this as Gods first actual judgement as judge and shows the setting and accepting of a bribe or human sacrifice to corrupt his justice. That justice usually stated that only the punishment of the guilty was acceptable to justice and that it would be unjust to punish the innocent. The corruption of God’s usual justice is what the bribe or sacrifice of Jesus bought. Injustice.

Recognizing that by whatever name you would use, sacrifice, ransom, bribe or payment, would you say such an immoral request and legal injustice would most likely be demanded by a God or by a Satan?

If punishing the innocent is not a just and moral thing to do, I would say that Satan would be the one to ask or demand such a sacrifice.

That would have Satan ruling heaven and not God as a good God would not do such an immoral thing.

Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

If you agree, does that indicate that Satan was ruling in heaven and not God on that day?

Regards
DL


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 07-12-2015 2:54 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 07-12-2015 3:44 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 5 of 30 (762468)
07-12-2015 3:03 PM


I guess that you both did not recognize that this thread is on the morality of substitutionary atonement.

Do you agree that Satan is more likely to ask for us to accept an immoral human sacrifice to bail us out than God would?

I do understand though why those of faith would not like to deal with a moral questions that show that God is quite the vile and immoral demiurge.

Regards
DL


Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 07-12-2015 3:37 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 07-12-2015 6:13 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 7 of 30 (762472)
07-12-2015 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
07-12-2015 3:37 PM


jar

Your mantra is duly noted.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 07-12-2015 3:37 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by jar, posted 07-12-2015 5:10 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 9 of 30 (762475)
07-12-2015 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
07-12-2015 3:44 PM


ringo

No arguing that.

If the antagonist is a plot device then so is the hero.

Good cannot prove itself without defeating evil in most literature.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 07-12-2015 3:44 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 07-12-2015 3:56 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 11 of 30 (762479)
07-12-2015 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
07-12-2015 3:56 PM


ringo

I agree with your last but you confuse the issue by mixing real and fictional.

KIS is the way to go.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 07-12-2015 3:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 14 of 30 (762537)
07-13-2015 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
07-12-2015 6:13 PM


Re: Substitute Teacher
Phat

The model of God/Jesus, the only perfect lamb of God, and the only man who cannot sin, because he is God as well, we are all born in Original Sin except for him, --- is the model forced upon us. We, apparently, have no other way to atone for our God given sin natures. We must accept the punishment of an innocent man or end in hell and death.

This all because Eve was deceived by a talking serpent, some think Satan, that God put in Eden to insure that Eve was deceived. God had planned for Eve to fail, which is why he had already planned to have Jesus murdered. I say murdered because he had planned that murder even before the potential of the first sin. As you say, ludicrous. I add immoral, which is why I vilify that vile demiurge, Yahweh.

Yahweh’s plan of having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs we have done, --- so that we might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. This is irrefutable. If that is immoral then we sin if we accept that murder and try to profit from it for our heavenly benefit.

Every justice system tries hard to punish the guilty and here Yahweh think it just to punish the innocent.

You said, “allowing us the ability to be free (if we so choose) from His communion and influence.”

This is false. Born in Original Sin, you cannot be free of God’s condemnation and you must accept and try to profit from Jesus’ murder.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 07-12-2015 6:13 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 15 of 30 (762538)
07-13-2015 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
07-12-2015 3:37 PM


jar

Thanks buddy. Follow your bliss.

You seem to know when God created the plan to have Jesus murdered. Enlighten us if you care to do so.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 07-12-2015 3:37 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 9:20 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 18 of 30 (762563)
07-13-2015 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
07-13-2015 9:20 AM


jar

There is no evidence for anything said about God or to justify a belief in a God.

That is what faith is for. The suspension of intelligent thought for a belief in the supernatural.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 9:20 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 07-13-2015 1:01 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 1:02 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 21 of 30 (762570)
07-13-2015 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
07-13-2015 1:02 PM


ringo

Because less intelligent people are believing bull shit and it is our social duty to help them.

Do you not love your fellow man?

Proverbs 3:12 For whom the Lord loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Do you not see the harm that religious belief cause for mankind?

Should we not all try to reduce that harm?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 1:02 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 1:17 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 23 of 30 (762582)
07-13-2015 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
07-13-2015 1:17 PM


^^

Show how?

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 07-13-2015 1:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 07-14-2015 11:39 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 25 of 30 (762679)
07-14-2015 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by ringo
07-14-2015 11:39 AM


^^

Did I not point to your comment?

Look at your comment and show how.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 07-14-2015 11:39 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 07-14-2015 1:20 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 27 of 30 (762681)
07-14-2015 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by ringo
07-14-2015 1:20 PM


How many comments did you make that I could possibly have spoken to.

Give an answer, stop your idiocy, or go away.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by ringo, posted 07-14-2015 1:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 07-14-2015 2:53 PM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 30 by ringo, posted 07-15-2015 3:08 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 518 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 29 of 30 (762697)
07-14-2015 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
07-14-2015 2:53 PM


Re: Who Let The Dogmas Out?
Phat

If by dogma you mean this, --- a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted, then yes I do.

I offer this plagiarized wisdom from an unknown author as justification for my view.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 07-14-2015 2:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
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