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Author | Topic: Hate Crimes? Thought Crimes? Crimethink? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
What risk? The risk mentioned by the question in the post you replied to:Is 'hate crime' a slippery slope to 'hate speech' to simply 'crimethink'? Love your enemies!
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Is 'hate crime' a slippery slope to 'hate speech' to simply 'crimethink'? No.
I don't think whatever perceived 'benefits' society might think it's getting out of these laws is worth the risk of finding out. You just did find out, 'cos I told you. There, it wasn't that bad, was it?
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Jon Inactive Member |
I know this may offend your unbounded sense of self importance, but someone should probably break it to you that your statements are not a substitute for the play-out of reality.
Love your enemies!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Yes. It's not called 'the first amendment', obviously, but almost every modern democratic country has freedom of speech enshrined in their constitution. And yet some of these countries, such as France since 1990, also have laws against hate speech. You can have a freedom of speech enshrined in your constitution and yet not have anything like the first amendment. Pure hate speech laws that do not involve incitement, fighting words or otherwise lead immediately to law breaking and violence would be unconstitutional in the US. First amendment jurisprudence is one reason why I do not think the risk of having hate speech laws passed and enforced is very high. Holocaust deniers and Nazi supporters in the US are ridiculed and but not arrested. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
caffeine writes: This isn't quite right. You're quite right. The assault offence is the 1861 Act, the racially/religiously aggravated assault offence is 1998. I'm now officially confused. The sentencing guidelines run both the 1861 act and the 1998 act into one. Statutory aggravating factors being disability and sex. Assault: Definitive guideline – Sentencing It's as though ordinary assault has been bumped up. But as I say, I'm now properly confused.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jon writes:
Is 'hate crime' a slippery slope to 'hate speech' to simply 'crimethink'? Then obviously not. Crime is an act that causes harm, not a thought that can't. If you punch someone because he's black, that's an act that causes harm. If you just think that you'd like to punch the guy, no one knows and no one is harmed.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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nonukes writes: First amendment jurisprudence is one reason why I do not think the risk of having hate speech laws passed and enforced is very high. Holocaust deniers and Nazi supporters in the US are ridiculed and but not arrested. Same here. But I think individual countries that have suffered genocidal tragedies can be forgiven for having enacted some very specific laws that are generally out of character.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Crime is whatever the law says crime is.
Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Crime is whatever the law says crime is. And until we can detect criminal thoughts, they cannot be crimes. Next!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Again, a crime is whatever the law says a crime is. If the law doesn't require that a crime be detectable, then it doesn't matter that we can't detect thoughts, they can still be crimes.
Love your enemies!
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
...it doesn't matter that we can't detect thoughts, they can still be crimes. To have Orwellian Thought Police you have to be able to detect them.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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I know this may offend your unbounded sense of self importance, but someone should probably break it to you that your statements are not a substitute for the play-out of reality. They're an excellent substitute. You asked "Is 'hate crime' a slippery slope to 'hate speech' to simply 'crimethink'?" I said "no". Now let's look at the play-out of reality. We've had hate crime legislation for the last 47 years and haven't slid an inch down this supposed slippery slope. "The play-out of reality" also says "no". Reality should hire me as a spokesperson, and I should get some sort of official hat.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Are you high?
What makes you think real detection of an act is required in order to criminalize it? Do you think all those Puritans had super witch-detecting powers? Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
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Larni Member Posts: 4000 From: Liverpool Joined:
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Well in that case, no.
The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer. -Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53 The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286 Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
This thread has, IMO, finally jumped the shark. (Not your fault Larni)
But more importantly, how is your rating a Bo Derek, perfect 10 Larni? What's the algorithm at work here? I'm going to give you an upvote and see what happens. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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