The bible is the inerrant words of God

Shall we assume for the moment that Noah's flood really did happen the way fundee christians say it did? If so, then God owes US an apology, and since it does say that He repented(to himself), it seems to me that he didn't really want to wipe out the planet in the first place. That puts God in a very bad mental state don't you think? He felt compelled to kill us all because we couldn't measure up but he set us up to 'fall' & not measure up to begin with. Isn't God just like us; he sees us spilling blood, preferring sin, & causing war, and then HE does it right back at us by destroying his planet. We haven't destroyed it YET; I think we're too smart for that. Wait...Maybe God has apologized to us already, that is IF he died on the cross as you say. Who said we humans couldn't out-think God, or have the same status? Doesn't it say that He made us in His IMAGE. And please don't say God looks like us, because He's supposed to be a spirit. There is something a judging God can do: quit judging us and judge himself first. Jesus said something like that.[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 01-02-2004]

Sorry satan , but I don't buy that.
I am not talking to you Prozacman, the above message really is to satan!!! So take no offense. Bzzzzzzzzt. Wiz's wager, We cannot punish God if we "pretend" to judge him = Futility. He CAN and WILL judge us, because we are NOT God. Prozacman has won a lifetime of confusion in the realms of unrighteoussness.

Ahem...Come on now, tell me why you don't buy that? Who said I was judging God or even pretending to? I just made a statement that Jesus is supposed to have made: Do not judge others. Doesn't God have to keep to his own rules?

Can you quote where God says he will make a law for HIMSELF?
Need the only good one keep himself on a leesh?This is the Shopkeeper analogy. If I rob sweets from a shop, I will be a thief, if the shopkeeper takes sweets is he a thief? - Ofcourse not, why make rules for the shopkeeper, he owns the sweets. Do you understand?Bzzzzzzzzt. wiz's wager

Your shopkeeper analogy is not acceptable because shopkeepers can steal money from their own cash registers. They are accountable to laws of the larger society they live in. And if God is like a shopkeeper and he doesn't go by the rules, then his shop won't stay open for long, will it? Of course if God is just as bad as christianity says we humans are, then he's like a bull(y) who runs through his own china shop. There are several instances in the Jewish Bible where God is just this bad, and the Flood myth is just one. Good grief, one would think that God could have intervened before humankind got to such a state that we had to be drowned. Then God wouldn't end up blowing a fuse and having to repent afterwords. Leesh, Smeesh, It's a Biblical myth that God is good & we humans are not, because as I've said, God does some horrible stuff in the OT. All of this is predicated on the worn out idea of the 'kingdom' as a way to govern human affairs. Nobody's supposed to be more powerful than the king, and he makes the rules for everyone except himslf to follow. That's not a good king; that's a tyrant, because he ends up abusing his power and getting overthrown in a revolution of some sort. If the Judeo-Christian God is an all-powerful tyrant, because he doesn't have to follow his own rules, and as a result his subjects get stomped on, then we humans really have no choice but to be his doormat. No thanks.[This message has been edited by Prozacman, 01-03-2004]

You need to consult a Hebrew word meanings of the O.T. dictionary to settle the issue.Bible translators will translate "face" when the word in the Hebrew could mean 15 different variations or synonyms. The context should determine which english word best translates the original Hebrew word.However, this entire issue of inerrancy and contradictions and translation and word meanings is the very purpose of the Preacher/Teacher/Rabbi.This is why God calls them - to teach His word and its meaning. According to Dr. Scott, God gives US the choice in choosing who speaks for Him. God will not circumvent this chain of communication contrary to the basic claims of gnosticism.This is also why the calling of God is important. He calls people to teach His word to give applicaton and specific meaning to Scripture.Minus the element of a chosen teacher of God explaining the Bible it is just another book subject to everyones subjective opinion.

WTSo you defer to another the interpretation part of translation on the basis of fallible human beings saying that they have been called to God. So how do you determine that they are called by God. It cannot be because the Bible tells you how when you require others to do the interpretation.What a shame.

The determination of whether a person has the calling of God to explain and teach His word is left up to the hearer.The criteria is "Do they turn lights on when they preach/teach ?""Do you you hear the Other voice through them ?"A lot of people claim to speak for God, He knows this. The Bible teaches that God will give us the choice in picking that person.
And when this choice is made it is made because the hearer has the experience of reading a certain Bible verse a 100 times, BUT when a called person reads and explains it you suudenly see a meaning that you didn't before on your own. When this experience occurs time and time again you now have the reason to believe that this is the person who speaks for God. They make you see truth that is already there, not because they say so, but because they point it out and then you see it.This is the system by which God has chosen to speak.And when a person finally decides that so and so speaks for God then you are on the hook to follow that person as they follow God (unless God chooses you to be a teacher then He will communicate directly to you through His word.)

WT Correct me if I am wrong but are you saying that the bible tells you that God will give you the choice but that you require the Preacher/Teacher/Rabbi in order to translate to you that God gives you the choice?What if the Preacher/Teacher/Rabbi is bullshitting you how would you ever know since they are the one giving you the information? This is the sort of blindness that leads to things like Jonestown.

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...people today are so accustomed to pretentious nonsense that they see nothing amiss in reading without understanding, and many of them at length discover that they can without difficulty write in like manner themselves and win applause for it. And so it perpetuates itself.
G. A. Wells, 1991

Post #38 answers this exact question that you pose. How could you miss it ?Jonestown is a tragedy that came about from a tyrant using the Bible to propogate his ambitions to be a king.Christianity doesn't apologize for or do penance for Jonestown.The people who followed Jim Jones were poor disenfranchised souls that the world created.If you understand Post #38 then you will understand that you are responsible for choosing who you follow. The criteria is hearing the Other voice not some promise of conflict free utopia in a promise land run by some person duplicating the dictators of third world governments.

So those 900 people who killed themselves their children with cyanide laced kool-aid were not hearing the Other voice or seeing the lights turn on in the days before Jones lost his mind? How do you know? What other reason do you have for explaining this? Perhaps you are just a few short steps from falling into the same trap through your infatuation with these charasmatic speakers.I am sorry if you feel that you must depend upon having a shepherd. I guess it is just a matter of what you are willing to live with. Good luck to you.

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...people today are so accustomed to pretentious nonsense that they see nothing amiss in reading without understanding, and many of them at length discover that they can without difficulty write in like manner themselves and win applause for it. And so it perpetuates itself.
G. A. Wells, 1991

[Sidelined, post 39] "What if the Preacher/Teacher/Rabbi is bullshitting you how would you ever know since they are the one giving you the information? This is the sort of blindness that leads to things like Jonestown." BINGO! [Willowtree, post 40] "Jonestown is a tragedy that came about from a tyrant using the Bible to propogate his ambitions to be a king." Double BINGO! [Sidelined, post 41] "Perhaps you are just a few short steps from falling into the same trap through your infatuation with these charasmatic speakers." YATZEE!

I guess that 'Word of God' and 'Word about God' could be considered one and the same. I, however, find the "of" part to be a misreprestation.A most restrictive meaning of 'Word of God' might be 'Direct quotations of God'. A somewhat less restrictive meaning might be 'Direct quotations of God, and other information sent by God'.But, I think the more precise definition of the Bible would be 'Man's compilation of 'about God''. The 'Word about God'.Moose

Moose:I was just wondering what is the source of these beliefs contained in this post of yours ?

The bible is the inerrant words of GodNow the Bible would not have the words of God in it if it were not for the men of God.YES?So these men of God are called prophets .....YES?So if the prophecies did not come to pass then the prophecies recorded in the Bible being FALSE cannot possible be the word of GOD?YES?The Bible itself states, a prophet's that prophecy does not come to pass shall be put to death.Create a Website | Tripod Web Hosting Failed PropheciesThe following was posted from the Eve's Apple mailing list.Some Bible prophecies that failed to occurEzekiel predicted Babylon would conquer Egypt and was wrong.Ezekiel predicts that Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon will conquer Egypt utterly destroying it, slaying and scattering it's people, and that it will stay uninhabited for 40 years.In 568 BCE Nebuchadrezzar tried to conquer Egypt and Egypt survived with no apparent damage.Aahmes ruled for another generation over a prosperous Egypt and lived to see Nebuchadrezzar die. No Egyptians were scattered or dispersed.(Ezek 29:10 NRSV) therefore, I am against you, and against your channels, and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene, as far as the border of Ethiopia.(Ezek 29:11 NRSV) No human foot shall pass through it, and no animal foot shall pass through it; it shall be uninhabited forty years.(Ezek 29:12 NRSV) I will make the land of Egypt a desolation among desolated countries; and her cities shall be a desolation forty years among cities that are laid waste. I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and disperse them among the countries.(Ezek 30:10 NRSV) Thus says the Lord GOD: I will put an end to the hordes of Egypt, by the hand of King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon.(Ezek 30:11 NRSV) He and his people with him, the most terrible of the nations, shall be brought in to destroy the land; and they shall draw their swords against Egypt, and fill the land with the slain.Ezekiel predicts the destruction of Tyre (Tyrus) by Nebuchadrezzar and is wrong again.Ezekiel incorrectly predicts that the island of Tyre (Tyrus) will be utterly destroyed and "made a bare rock" which will "never be rebuilt".At the time of the prediction, it seemed like to be a sure thing, but 13 years of seige later Nebuchadrezzar gives up. The Island of Tyre is not destroyed or even conquered. It is not made "a bare rock" that will "never be rebuilt".Ezekiel admits his error in Ezek 29:17(Here the conquest of Trye looks like a sure thing so Ezekiel makes his prediction)(Ezek 26:1 NRSV) In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:(Ezek 26:7 NRSV) For thus says the Lord GOD: I will bring against Tyre from the north King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon, king of kings, together with horses, chariots, cavalry, and a great and powerful army.(Ezek 26:14 NRSV) I will make you a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I the LORD have spoken, says the Lord GOD.(Ezek 27:32 NRSV) In their wailing they raise a lamentation for you, and lament over you: "Who was ever destroyed like Tyre in the midst of the sea?(13 years of futile effort by Nebuchadrezzar later...)(Ezek 29:17 NRSV) In the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me:(Here Ezekiel admits he was wrong)(Ezek 29:18 NRSV) Mortal, King Nebuchadrezzar of Babylon made his army labor hard against Tyre; every head was made bald and every shoulder was rubbed bare; yet neither he nor his army got anything from Tyre to pay for the labor that he had expended against it.(So he then predicts that God decides to give Egypt to him instead, another Ezekiel prophecy that completely failed)Micah predicts the destruction of Jerusalem (which at the time was about to be invaded by Sennacherib and seemed inevitable) blaming the destruction on the corruption of the priesthood of Judah.Jerusalem was sieged, but the destruction didn't happen.A century later Jeremiah quotes Micah and tries to excuse the failed prophecy by saying that "the Lord changed his mind" about that destruction.(Micah 3:12 NRSV) Therefore because of you Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.(~100 years and no destruction later...)(Jer 26:18 NRSV) "Micah of Moresheth, who prophesied during the days of King Hezekiah of Judah, said to all the people of Judah: 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, Zion shall be plowed as a field; Jerusalem shall become a heap of ruins, and the mountain of the house a wooded height.'(Jer 26:19 NRSV) Did King Hezekiah of Judah and all Judah actually put him to death? Did he not fear the LORD and entreat the favor of the LORD, and did not the LORD change his mind about the disaster that he had pronounced against them? ...The prophet Daniel incorrectly states that in the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim, Nebuchadnezzar is king and that he conquers Judah.The third year of Jehoiakim's reign was 606 BCE, at which time Nebuchadnezzar was not yet king of Babylon. It was in 597 BCE that Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem, by then Jehoiakim had died.(Dan 1:1 NRSV) In the third year of the reign of King Jehoiakim of Judah, King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it.(Dan 1:2 NRSV) The Lord let King Jehoiakim of Judah fall into his power, as well as some of the vessels of the house of God. These he brought to the land of Shinar, and placed the vessels in the treasury of his gods.Jeremiah incorrectly predicts 70 years for the Babylonian exiles but they only lasted 59 years.The 1rst exile started in 597 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar first takes Jerusalem and appoints Zedekiah king (Judah's last king). Nebuchadnezzar has temple equipment taken away.The start of the 2nd exile was in 586 BCE when Nebuchadnezzar takes Jerusalem a second time putting down a rebellion and destroys the temple.The end comes in 538 BCE when Cyrus takes Babylon and ends the Babylonian kingdom. Jews are then allowed to return to Judah.(Jer 29:10 NRSV) For thus says the LORD: Only when Babylon's seventy years are completed will I visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place