|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: 5 Questions... | |||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
"And without a reason to be here you must resort to the super natural."
Why? you ASSUME that something that has existed forever has to have a reason? you've said it more than once. This is your inference, not mine. You say it like its a logical step. It could have just existed forever without purpose, thereby negating any need for the supernatural. This has just as much logic as your argument, & we don't have to resort to supernatural beings that have existed forever without purpose!!!??? "So the best explanation for something by your beliefs is always scientific explanation, correct? So that would explain how God, something that is not provable thus far by science, is not your best explanation. But, if science says that matter can not be destroyed and can not be created, how can it's existence be scientifically explainable without redoing our whole concept of science?" The first two paragraphs are correct. The third is wrong in principle. Science explains via the first law pf thermodynamics (again) that matter & energy, though interchangeable cannot be created or destroyed. So, what concept of science needs redoing? Its science that makes the statement in the first place! You seem to have a problem reconciling something existing forever with science. The Standard Big Bang never claimed to create anything, but was a massive conversion of energy into matter. The energy existed pre-big bang, thus science & the 1st law of thermodynamics are preserved. ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Because our reality can't just exist for no reason.
[b] [QUOTE]
"So the best explanation for something by your beliefs is always scientific explanation, correct? So that would explain how God, something that is not provable thus far by science, is not your best explanation.[/b][/QUOTE] I didn't say I was trying to prove God by science, only by rational thought. I may have been under the false impression that most people in here were athiest, so I was trying to help expand people's mind into not limiting their beleifs on our concept of reality.
[b] [QUOTE]
But, if science says that matter can not be destroyed and can not be created, how can it's existence be scientifically explainable without redoing our whole concept of science?" The first two paragraphs are correct. The third is wrong in principle. Science explains via the first law pf thermodynamics (again) that matter & energy, though interchangeable cannot be created or destroyed. So, what concept of science needs redoing? Its science that makes the statement in the first place![/b][/QUOTE] I think scientific was poor word choice on my part. Again, with my other post I realized that everyone may not be athiest. I was just tying to say that reality itself must have a reason to be here. But this is probably the wrong message board to address this topic on.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
"Because our reality can't just exist for no reason."
Why? This is just opinion stated as fact. If you're honest, you don't know either way, so why make the assumption? ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: If there is no reason, then there is really no true connection between cause and effect.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: Precisely. If it was there forever, there wouldn't be a cause to have an effect. ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with. [This message has been edited by mark24, 12-14-2001]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: The point I am trying to make is hard to explain. But if you think about it for a while you will see what I mean.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: Maybe this will help. The effect would be our reality exist. What is the cause?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: I could answer, but I'm not sure what you mean, I think you left a word out? I could take that two ways. Pls clarify.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
quote: reality is the effect of what cause?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
quote: Now you've moved the goalposts from matter/energy to reality. The big bang may have had a cause, in the sense that lightning has a cause. Theres still nothing to say it wasn't naturalistic. If matter/energy existed pre-big bang, then so did reality. Perhaps not in the way you & I understand the universe. But if it existed, then there was a "reality" for it to exist in. It still doesn't need a cause, as its not an effect. ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
It has been brought to my attention by a friend that this concept is one that you can either understand, or not. But it can not be explain to someone.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Not a very good concept, if it can't be explained!
There are two coices; 1/ There is purpose to matter/energy2/ There is not Neither you nor I know either way. This is NOT a concept beyond explanation. ------------------Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
There's a Coffee House Forum where any topic can be discussed. --Percy [This message has been edited by Percipient, 12-15-2001]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
redstang281 Inactive Member |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Percipient:
[b]
Understood, I will stop debating the issue.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Hi Redstang!
You misunderstand. Your discussion has been just fine, excellent in fact. I only wanted to point out that the Coffee House Forum is a good place to open a thread to address the question of whether reality must have a reason to exist. Percy
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024