Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,816 Year: 3,073/9,624 Month: 918/1,588 Week: 101/223 Day: 12/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(6)
Message 211 of 1639 (765359)
07-27-2015 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by marc9000
07-27-2015 7:42 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
Well Ford, Nixon and Ike were conservatives not fascists. And while they were not perfect they did do some worthwhile things.
Nixon is a great example.
Remember he established the Environmental Protection Agency.
He sat down with other Nations we considered enemies and talked to them.
He tried to get Universal Health Care and a Guaranteed Minimum Household Income established.
He pushed through the EPA and expansion of the Endangered Species Act.
Nixon was the President that pushed through indexing Social Security for inflation.
He created Supplemental Security Income.
He created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, forced funding for the Legacy Parks Program.
He pushed through the Philadelphia Plan that forced government contracts to include hiring of minority workers.
During his Administration he created the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Office of Minority Business Enterprise and abolished the last of the Gold Standard.
He was also the first President to have daily press briefings.
Some other incidents during his Administration were pushing through the 55 MPH speed limit to cut gas consumption, putting wage and price controls in place during a recessionary period, and impounded billions of dollars from bills that he considered pork barrel.
He also declared we won in Vietnam and allowed our forces to just stop fighting and leave.
Ford signed the Helsinki Accords, pardoned Nixon and officially ended US involvement in the Vietnam War and also signed the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975 establishing Special Education nationwide.
Ike ended the Korean War, sponsored and signed the Civil Rights Bill of 1957 as well as the Federal Aid Highway Act of 1956 and unlike Reagan or the Bush clan balanced the budget not just once but three times.
Yes, Ike and Ford and Nixon and Goldwater and Rockefeller and Theodore Roosevelt were quite different than the Reagan, Bush and Bush midgets that followed.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by marc9000, posted 07-27-2015 7:42 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by dwise1, posted 07-28-2015 2:00 AM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 219 by marc9000, posted 07-29-2015 7:17 PM jar has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 212 of 1639 (765360)
07-27-2015 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by marc9000
07-27-2015 7:42 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
What do you think they (the current Republican candidates) want to do to the country that is different from what past Republicans did, or wanted to do to the country? The country didn't fall into any doom when Bush 43 was president, or Bush 41, or Reagan. Or Ford, or Nixon, or Eisenhower for that matter. What's different now with Republicans?
The difference is that today's Republicans would attack the policies of yesterday's Republicans as an Evil Marxist Plot to Take Away Our Freedoms and Destroy America.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by marc9000, posted 07-27-2015 7:42 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(3)
Message 213 of 1639 (765363)
07-28-2015 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
07-27-2015 9:57 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
Nixon is the reason why I'm registered as a Democrat. I first registered during his administration and he was the antithesis of everything I believed.
Now after that long parade of Republican clown cars, Nixon is looking damned good!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 07-27-2015 9:57 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-28-2015 2:29 AM dwise1 has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(3)
Message 214 of 1639 (765366)
07-28-2015 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by dwise1
07-28-2015 2:00 AM


Nixon looking good (sort of)
Had to track down one of my old signatures, which included:
"Nixon was a professional politician, and I despised everything he stood for, but if he were running for president this year against the evil Bush-Cheney gang, I would happily vote for him." - Hunter S. Thompson
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by dwise1, posted 07-28-2015 2:00 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by dwise1, posted 07-28-2015 3:05 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 215 of 1639 (765367)
07-28-2015 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Minnemooseus
07-28-2015 2:29 AM


Re: Nixon looking good (sort of)
Holy shit!
Nixon couldn't possibly get a better endorsement than that!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-28-2015 2:29 AM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by marc9000, posted 07-29-2015 7:19 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(7)
Message 216 of 1639 (765374)
07-28-2015 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by marc9000
07-27-2015 7:42 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
What is your definition of "doomed"? Mine would be either of two major disasters; 1) a financial crash, far worse than any from the past, and/or 2) a terrorist attack or foreign military attack far worse than any from the past. Do you have fears other than those two things?
I forgot to address this question.
I don't really fear a terrorist attack; frankly there is absolutely no way any external terrorist group could really threaten the US. To think they could is just a sign of ignorance at best, dishonesty more likely if coming from a politician.
But certainly there are things beyond those two minor issues to fear.
The continued assault on honesty and science exemplified by the Republican bullshit telling NASA not to continue using its capabilities to monitor conditions on earth.
The continued stupidity and dishonesty shown by Republican opposition to Global Warming.
The continued rape of American wealth by redirecting Taxes to the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
The continued Republican opposition to fetal tissue research.
The continued attempts to try to insert Christian Cult of Ignorance brain washing into to Public Schools systems.
The continued opposition of the Republicans to a Single Payer health care system in support of the current rape the consumer and screw health care model that has left the US with worse health care than Cuba.
Yes, the biggest threat to the US are the current crop of fascists that call themselves Republicans and Conservatives.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by marc9000, posted 07-27-2015 7:42 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by marc9000, posted 07-29-2015 7:29 PM jar has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 217 of 1639 (765474)
07-29-2015 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Tanypteryx
07-27-2015 8:44 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
I don't fear a terrorist attack that much, although 9-11 did cause a pretty severe economic slump. I think the assholes that did it accomplished a large portion of their goal, which was to have us turn our security apparatus against ourselves out of fear.
I agree, as long as you believe that 9-11 was done by a foreign enemy, not an inside job by W.
No foreign power other than Japan has attact our homeland since the war of 1812 so that is not something I think will happen.
9-11-01 was an attack on our homeland.
The rest of the world has become a pretty intense industrial competition for the U.S. only in the past few decades. And it's also very recently mastered the use of the www. That you don't see a brand new ballgame in threats to the U.S. mainland is amazing to me.
I think we will continue the economic and social slide into oligarchy that began under Reagan the Braindead.
A lot of what happened during the 80's was the result of the actions of both houses of congress - Democrats. Reagan vetoed a lot of things, but not as many as he should have. His one phrase sums up a lot of things; "Government isn't the solution, government is the problem". That's the big problem we have today, bigger and bigger government causes more and more corruption (in both parties), and so many on the left think that more big government is the solution to past failed big government. And the political divide continues to grow.
I think the ultra wealthy puppet masters of the GOP ultimatly want to bring back slavery. Poverty is a character flaw to them that can be remedied with slavery.
And you got 8 green lights for that howler. The representatives of the scientific community here do the scientific community no favors in the view of the general public.
They are trying to dismantle our education system, and make sure no one can ever pull themselves out of poverty. They want to make sure women in our society have no control over their own lives or bodies (ABE: The same as a bunch of other assholes that they all claim to hate). They want to make sure poor people cannot vote. They want to make sure that there will be no pensions or social security or medicare. By the way, medicare should have been expanded to provide single payer medical coverage for everyone instead of the ACA. It has a 3% administration cost compared to 10-20 times more for private insurance.
Their ideas of liberty, limited government, and morality are NO DIFFERENT than those of the Republican candidates and presidents of 30 or 40 years ago. The reason they seem so different to you is because they have to deal with a Democrat party that IN NO WAY resembles what it was 30 or 40 years ago. Democrats of 30 or 40 years ago didn't seek to teach atheism in science classes. They didn't promote abortion to near the extent that Democrats do today.
I was a teenager in the 1960's. When both Kennedy brothers and Martin Luther King were shot, there was practically no mention of any type of gun control, from the Democrats OR the news madia. Back then, at least some Democrats respected the U.S. enough to not blame society in general every time an unfortunate violent act took place in a free society. Confederate flags weren't targeted when King was shot. Gay marriage wasn't even remotely considered when Carter was president. A $15 minimum wage wasn't even thought of during the Clinton administration. (even adjusted for inflation)
All your doom and gloom predictions of what what will happen if our society holds the line, or increases liberty, limited government, and morality can't be verified by past historical examples, can they? Yet there are plenty of past historical examples of what happens to societies that allow the government to grow and grow, and to people who allow themselves to be disarmed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Tanypteryx, posted 07-27-2015 8:44 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-03-2015 7:42 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 233 by Theodoric, posted 08-03-2015 10:14 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 234 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-03-2015 11:19 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 218 of 1639 (765475)
07-29-2015 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by NoNukes
07-27-2015 9:32 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
Well given that you've defined doom to be worse than only those things that have already happened, wouldn't that t be impossible for anyone to have manage that accomplishment in the past?
Yes, since the word "doom" is synonymous with failure, and destruction, and the U.S. is still here.
I mean you are basically giving out free pass starting a war in Iraq and the last big financial crisis.
Perhaps you would like to rephrase?
A "free pass starting a war"?? Maybe you could rephrase?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by NoNukes, posted 07-27-2015 9:32 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 219 of 1639 (765476)
07-29-2015 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by jar
07-27-2015 9:57 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
Nixon is a great example.
Remember he established the Environmental Protection Agency.
Like Reagan, Nixon had a Democrat congress to deal with. (both houses) During his administration, the general public could see with its own eyes some of the pollution that was going on, industrial waste sites, and big city air pollution. Nixon didn't realize how the EPA would become the monster it became, in less than 10 years. It's solved a few problems, and caused 10 times more problems than it's ever solved.
He sat down with other Nations we considered enemies and talked to them.
That was a different time - other nations weren't beheading American citizens then.
He tried to get Universal Health Care and a Guaranteed Minimum Household Income established.
He pushed through the EPA and expansion of the Endangered Species Act.
Nixon was the President that pushed through indexing Social Security for inflation.
He created Supplemental Security Income.
He created the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, forced funding for the Legacy Parks Program.
He pushed through the Philadelphia Plan that forced government contracts to include hiring of minority workers.
During his Administration he created the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Office of Minority Business Enterprise and abolished the last of the Gold Standard.
He was also the first President to have daily press briefings.
Yes, he co-operated with Democrats in many ways, thinking they wouldn't turn around and nail him to the wall when they got the chance. He was wrong about that.
Some other incidents during his Administration were pushing through the 55 MPH speed limit to cut gas consumption, putting wage and price controls in place during a recessionary period, and impounded billions of dollars from bills that he considered pork barrel.
A corrupt congress "pushed through" the 55 mph speed limit, taking major bribes from insurance companies, Nixon's only mistake was signing it. It was unconstitutional. (10th amendment) Our society pays through the nose for it to this day, with disrespect for police, disrespect for today's speed limits, etc. Wouldn't it save gas and lives today? Why is it gone? Could it be the money ran out?
Yes, Ike and Ford and Nixon and Goldwater and Rockefeller and Theodore Roosevelt were quite different than the Reagan, Bush and Bush midgets that followed.
From a few things I've heard about the feisty Theodore Roosevelt, I'm not sure he's not comparable to Donald Trump in a few ways.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 07-27-2015 9:57 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 07-29-2015 7:51 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 220 of 1639 (765477)
07-29-2015 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by dwise1
07-28-2015 3:05 AM


Re: Nixon looking good (sort of)
Holy shit!
Nixon couldn't possibly get a better endorsement than that!
Atheists will say amazing things to shout down marc9000!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by dwise1, posted 07-28-2015 3:05 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 221 of 1639 (765479)
07-29-2015 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by jar
07-28-2015 10:56 AM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
I don't really fear a terrorist attack; frankly there is absolutely no way any external terrorist group could really threaten the US. To think they could is just a sign of ignorance at best, dishonesty more likely if coming from a politician.
So let me get this straight;
On 9-10-01, you suspected there was a chance, however slight, that a group of suicide terrorists could fly U.S. planes in to U.S. buildings and kill 3000 U.S. citizens, and on 7-29-15, you know for sure that there is NO WAY that non-suicide terrorists could enter the U.S. from the southern border, and introduce any type of killer biological or chemical weapons into the water supply of....Houston, or......New York, or both those cities plus 10 more, or 20 more?
Yes, the biggest threat to the US are the current crop of fascists that call themselves Republicans and Conservatives.
I think you, Tanypteryx, and all of your approval green dot givers represent the mainstream scientific community very well. And that's why the scientific community will always be so insignificant in terms of U.S. politics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by jar, posted 07-28-2015 10:56 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by jar, posted 07-29-2015 8:05 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 224 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2015 8:06 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 222 of 1639 (765481)
07-29-2015 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by marc9000
07-29-2015 7:17 PM


Marc's unsupported assertions against actual reality and facts.
So you have no facts, no reality, nothing but unsupported assertions. Got it.
And other nations are still not beheading American citizens nor would that even be a threat to the US if it was true.
I notice that you have presented not even a single example to support your claim that "the EPA would become the monster it became, in less than 10 years" or that the EPA "caused 10 times more problems than it's ever solved." Such unfounded assertions are classic examples of fascist propaganda.
Nixon, even with all his faults and they were many, at least had compassion and empathy and tried to do for the least of these, his brothers.
From a few things I've heard about the feisty Theodore Roosevelt, I'm not sure he's not comparable to Donald Trump in a few ways.
A big difference between Theodore Roosevelt and Donald Trump is that the former is not a total laughing stock.
Teddy Roosevelt was the President that first made big Corporations sit down and negotiate with labor, that busted trusts, that built the Park System, that said individual rights end where public rights begin.
AbE: a few quotes from Teddy that are particularly relevant today;
quote:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
"Now, this means that our government, national and State, must be freed from the sinister influence or control of special interests. Exactly as the special interests of cotton and slavery threatened our political integrity before the Civil War, so now the great special business interests too often control and corrupt the men and methods of government for their own profit. We must drive the special interests out of politics. That is one of our tasks to-day. Every special interest is entitled to justice -full, fair, and complete -and, now, mind you, if there were any attempt by mob-violence to plunder and work harm to the special interest, whatever it may be, and I most dislike and the wealthy man, whomsoever he may be, for whom I have the greatest contempt, I would fight for him, and you would if you were worth your salt. He should have justice. For every special interest is entitled to justice, but not one is entitled to a vote in Congress, to a voice on the bench, or to representation in any public office. The Constitution guarantees protections to property, and we must make that promise good But it does not give the right of suffrage to any corporation. The true friend of property, the true conservative, is he who insists that property shall be the servant and not the master of the commonwealth; who insists that the creature of man's making shall be the servant and not the master of the man who made it. The citizens of the United States must effectively control the mighty commercial forces which they have themselves called into being."
"There can be no effective control of corporations while their political activity remains. To put an end to it will be neither a short nor an easy task, but it can be done."
"We must have complete and effective publicity of corporate affairs, so that people may know beyond peradventure whether the corporations obey the law and whether their management entitles them to the confidence of the public. It is necessary that laws should be passed to prohibit the use of corporate funds directly or indirectly for political purposes; it is still more necessary that such laws should be thoroughly enforced. Corporate expenditures for political purposes, and specially such expenditures by public-service corporations, have supplied one of the principal sources of corruption in our political affairs."
Theodore Roosevelt
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by marc9000, posted 07-29-2015 7:17 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 223 of 1639 (765482)
07-29-2015 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by marc9000
07-29-2015 7:29 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
On 9-10-01, you suspected there was a chance, however slight, that a group of suicide terrorists could fly U.S. planes in to U.S. buildings and kill 3000 U.S. citizens, and on 7-29-15, you know for sure that there is NO WAY that non-suicide terrorists could enter the U.S. from the southern border, and introduce any type of killer biological or chemical weapons into the water supply of....Houston, or......New York, or both those cities plus 10 more, or 20 more?
No, but I am at least educated enough to understand that even something of that magnitude would not be a threat to the continuation of the US. Does Japan still exist? Do Germany, England, France, Belgium, Greece, Italy, Russia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Cuba, Poland still exist?
In fact I not only suspected that a group of suicide terrorists could fly U.S. planes in to U.S. buildings and kill 3000 U.S. citizens, I had a very high degree of confidence that it would happen. I am even capable of reading and knew that Tom Clancy had written two very successful novels that included that plot device before the 2001 9-11 event and that the idea of suicide pilots crashing planes into targets might even have originated even before then. Maybe you had missed the news of such happenings. It was called World War Two.
Unlike the current crop of so called conservatives I do not keep my head shoved up my ass.
I think you, Tanypteryx, and all of your approval green dot givers represent the mainstream scientific community very well. And that's why the scientific community will always be so insignificant in terms of U.S. politics.
Honesty, reality and education do seem to be insignificant in term of US politics which is why the US has fallen so far behind even nations like Cuba.
And yes, I agree that today's crop of fascists called the Republican Party are anti-science, anti-reality, anti-Constitution, anti-American, anti-Democracy and anti-Christian.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin
Edited by jar, : may ---> my

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by marc9000, posted 07-29-2015 7:29 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by NoNukes, posted 08-16-2015 3:18 AM jar has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 224 of 1639 (765483)
07-29-2015 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by marc9000
07-29-2015 7:29 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
On 9-10-01, you suspected there was a chance, however slight, that a group of suicide terrorists could fly U.S. planes in to U.S. buildings and kill 3000 U.S. citizens, and on 7-29-15, you know for sure that there is NO WAY that non-suicide terrorists could enter the U.S. from the southern border, and introduce any type of killer biological or chemical weapons into the water supply of....Houston, or......New York, or both those cities plus 10 more, or 20 more?
It would be rather difficult.
Why would they come through the southern border, apart from to please conservatives?
And that's why the scientific community will always be so insignificant in terms of U.S. politics.
BTW, how's your lot doing at getting that story about the talking snake taught in public schools? With $130,000,000,000 annual federal spending on creationist R&D, you'd think you'd be making some headway ... oh, wait, my mistake, that's science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by marc9000, posted 07-29-2015 7:29 PM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by jar, posted 07-29-2015 10:25 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 225 of 1639 (765484)
07-29-2015 8:27 PM


Things Mike Huckabee Doesn't Know
Huckabee repeats the standard GW-denier lie about volcanoes, thus managing to be wrong by about five orders of magnitude.
Knave or fool? --- you decide.

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024