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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3766 of 5179 (765623)
08-02-2015 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 3765 by jar
08-02-2015 12:43 PM


You're playing semantic games while people die. Reduce the prevalence of guns and it will reduce needless gun deaths.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3765 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 12:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3767 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 1:32 PM Percy has replied
 Message 3768 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-02-2015 2:39 PM Percy has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3767 of 5179 (765624)
08-02-2015 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 3766 by Percy
08-02-2015 1:29 PM


Your playing semantic games while people die. Reduce folks speeding or driving drunk and it will reduce needless vehicular deaths.
See how easy it is?
But I am trying to address a big problem not just a small but vocal one.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3766 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 1:29 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3770 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 5:20 PM jar has replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 3768 of 5179 (765626)
08-02-2015 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 3766 by Percy
08-02-2015 1:29 PM


High gun death rates in some areas
Jar is pointing out that gun deaths are still relatively low compared to auto accident deaths.
I think one thing that is getting lost is that gun incidents are not uniformly distributed throughout the country. Gun control may indeed be a minor problem in rural areas/states, but it is a major problem in at least some urban areas.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3766 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 1:29 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3769 by saab93f, posted 08-02-2015 3:19 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3772 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 5:43 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

saab93f
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 3769 of 5179 (765629)
08-02-2015 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3768 by Minnemooseus
08-02-2015 2:39 PM


Re: High gun death rates in some areas
It is somewhat silly IMO to compare deaths from car accidents to those from guns. Cars serve a useful purpose AND their primary function is not to kill or maim people whereas handguns...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3768 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-02-2015 2:39 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

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 Message 3771 by NoNukes, posted 08-02-2015 5:34 PM saab93f has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 3770 of 5179 (765630)
08-02-2015 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3767 by jar
08-02-2015 1:32 PM


jar writes:
Your playing semantic games while people die. Reduce folks speeding or driving drunk and it will reduce needless vehicular deaths.
See how easy it is?
I see how easily you spout nonsense to avoid discussing the topic of this thread. I'm not playing semantic games in any way, and your attempted turnabout makes no sense since I'm perfectly willing to discuss reducing traffic fatalities. In a thread where that's the topic.
But I am trying to address a big problem not just a small but vocal one.
Over 8000 annual deaths from firearm homicides is smaller than 25,000 annual traffic fatalities, but it is not small. It also represents a rate nearly ten times greater than other industrialized nations
Since there are over a half million cancer deaths every year, by your silly argument we shouldn't be talking about anything with comparatively tiny numbers of deaths, which would include both firearm homicides and traffic fatalities.
Can I suggest that if you don't feel the topic is worth discussing that you stop posting?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3767 by jar, posted 08-02-2015 1:32 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3775 by jar, posted 08-03-2015 8:52 AM Percy has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 3771 of 5179 (765631)
08-02-2015 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3769 by saab93f
08-02-2015 3:19 PM


Re: High gun death rates in some areas
Cars serve a useful purpose AND their primary function is not to kill or maim people whereas handguns...
And of course driving is a highly regulated activity. About the only thing this car vs gun argument works against is a complete ban of all guns
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3769 by saab93f, posted 08-02-2015 3:19 PM saab93f has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22394
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 3772 of 5179 (765632)
08-02-2015 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3768 by Minnemooseus
08-02-2015 2:39 PM


Re: High gun death rates in some areas
Minnemooseus writes:
Jar is pointing out that gun deaths are still relatively low compared to auto accident deaths.
Sure, and that he's more concerned about traffic fatalities. Which is his prerogative. But that doesn't mean firearm deaths shouldn't be a concern or that we shouldn't discuss them, particularly since children are so often the victims. Jar asks (paraphrasing), "Why are gun deaths an issue compared to traffic deaths?" Everyone knows the answer to that question. Simple humanity requires concern about all needless deaths.
And "Guns don't kill people, people kill people," *is* a semantic game. The important point is that the widespread prevalence of guns is responsible for the higher firearm homicide rate in this country.
I think one thing that is getting lost is that gun incidents are not uniformly distributed throughout the country. Gun control may indeed be a minor problem in rural areas/states, but it is a major problem in at least some urban areas.
The problem can be broken down into greater geographic detail, but the basic issue applies everywhere: more guns mean more gun deaths.
And it *is* pertinent to repeat a point often made in this thread, most recently by Saab93f, that motor vehicles serve essential economic and social purposes while guns do not. Ironically, guns purchased for self defense are far more likely to be used against oneself, friends or family than for actual self-defense.
There is one similarity between gun safety and car safety: gun nuts and the gun industry are fighting safety improvements just as hard as the auto industry once did.
--Percy

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 Message 3768 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-02-2015 2:39 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3773 by xongsmith, posted 08-02-2015 6:02 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 3777 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-04-2015 4:59 PM Percy has replied

xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 3773 of 5179 (765634)
08-02-2015 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3772 by Percy
08-02-2015 5:43 PM


Re: High gun death rates in some areas
Percy repeats:
more guns mean more gun deaths...
I think we need to rephrase this:
the more guns people get means more gun deaths as a result of them getting those guns
.
I would submit that the more guns someone gets, the more crazy they are revealing themselves to be, except for collectors.
in other words - it's not the guns it''s the idiots that get them.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3772 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 5:43 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3774 of 5179 (765641)
08-03-2015 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by shadow71
12-16-2012 10:31 AM


sorry. hit keys while dozing
Edited by NoNukes, : remove garbage.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by shadow71, posted 12-16-2012 10:31 AM shadow71 has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3775 of 5179 (765642)
08-03-2015 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 3770 by Percy
08-02-2015 5:20 PM


Percy writes:
Can I suggest that if you don't feel the topic is worth discussing that you stop posting?
But I do feel the topic is worth discussing, and am trying to point out that the solutions suggested are at best sophomoric and in many cases just stupid.
The issue is not guns but misuse of tools; it is the same issue are vehicular deaths and that is ignorance and disregard of existing laws.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3770 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 5:20 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3776 by Theodoric, posted 08-03-2015 11:51 AM jar has replied
 Message 3835 by Percy, posted 08-06-2015 5:41 PM jar has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 3776 of 5179 (765646)
08-03-2015 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3775 by jar
08-03-2015 8:52 AM


But the topic isn't about the misuse of tools. You can tell by the title of the topic. Well, at least most people can. So could you please not keep trying to derail the topic to grind your particular axe? It is an interesting topic and your posts really are not that interesting.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3775 by jar, posted 08-03-2015 8:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3778 by jar, posted 08-04-2015 9:51 PM Theodoric has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 3777 of 5179 (765703)
08-04-2015 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3772 by Percy
08-02-2015 5:43 PM


Re: High gun death rates in some areas
The problem can be broken down into greater geographic detail, but the basic issue applies everywhere: more guns mean more gun deaths.
Just FYI, that is still vacuous.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3772 by Percy, posted 08-02-2015 5:43 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3923 by Percy, posted 08-08-2015 10:46 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3778 of 5179 (765713)
08-04-2015 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3776 by Theodoric
08-03-2015 11:51 AM


You may find the topic interesting as do I. It is fascinating watching folk try to avoid dealing with the real issue.
If we banned vehicles it would reduce vehicular deaths.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3776 by Theodoric, posted 08-03-2015 11:51 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3779 by Theodoric, posted 08-04-2015 11:09 PM jar has not replied
 Message 3780 by saab93f, posted 08-05-2015 5:57 AM jar has replied
 Message 3836 by Percy, posted 08-06-2015 5:44 PM jar has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 3779 of 5179 (765721)
08-04-2015 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 3778 by jar
08-04-2015 9:51 PM


Still attempting to derail the topic I see.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3778 by jar, posted 08-04-2015 9:51 PM jar has not replied

saab93f
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 3780 of 5179 (765728)
08-05-2015 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3778 by jar
08-04-2015 9:51 PM


If we banned vehicles it would reduce vehicular deaths.
Yes but that does nothing to the fact that vehicles serve a useful purpose, handguns do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3778 by jar, posted 08-04-2015 9:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3781 by jar, posted 08-05-2015 8:25 AM saab93f has replied

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