Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
7 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,816 Year: 3,073/9,624 Month: 918/1,588 Week: 101/223 Day: 12/17 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 256 of 1639 (765867)
08-07-2015 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by marc9000
08-07-2015 8:29 AM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
WOW!! Astounding.
You think laws pass instantly?
Do you know the date in 1963 Kennedy was assassinated?
Ever hear of Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2015 8:29 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2015 9:17 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 257 of 1639 (765868)
08-07-2015 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by NoNukes
08-06-2015 5:10 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
Apparently your life experiences in the sixties did not include taking a detailed look at what was going on in politics.
You're right I didn't, I was a kid. But I would have noticed if Chet Huntley and David Brinkley would have been editorializing, blaming a piece of hardware, or a law abiding general public, for crimes committed by a few. My grandfather had the news on a lot, and I know he would have had something to say too, that I would have clearly remembered.
A look at actual history tells us that the assassination is basically the start of the modern attitudes about gun control. In the year after Kennedy was killed there were a dozen gun control bills introduced in Congress.
And NONE of them were passed the year after Kennedy was killed. With a Democrat president, Democrat house, and Democrat senate. It took 4 more years. Nothing like today's Democrats.
I would suggest that you drop this line of argument. Like many of your claims, this one does not stand up to the light of day.
Nothing much more to say about it. If today's Democrats want to re-write history and try to claim they're just like the Democrats of the 1960's, we'll see how it goes. Maybe there are enough young people that haven't had good history teachers who will buy it. We'll have to wait and see how thoroughly Hillary and Bernie analyze the 60's Democrat statement "Ask NOT what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country." Just what today's free-stuff seeking Democrat voter wants to hear.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by NoNukes, posted 08-06-2015 5:10 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Diomedes, posted 08-07-2015 9:52 AM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 260 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2015 4:11 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 258 of 1639 (765869)
08-07-2015 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 256 by Theodoric
08-07-2015 9:05 AM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
WOW!! Astounding.
You think laws pass instantly?
I know that today's Democrats and the mainstream news media go ballistic instantly about the second amendment each time there's a public figure shooting. Didn't happen in the 60's.
Ever hear of Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King?
Ever read my message 241?
Edited by marc9000, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Theodoric, posted 08-07-2015 9:05 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(2)
Message 259 of 1639 (765871)
08-07-2015 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by marc9000
08-07-2015 9:14 AM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
If today's Democrats want to re-write history and try to claim they're just like the Democrats of the 1960's, we'll see how it goes. Maybe there are enough young people that haven't had good history teachers who will buy it. We'll have to wait and see how thoroughly Hillary and Bernie analyze the 60's Democrat statement "Ask NOT what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
I don't think any sort of comparison of today's Democrats to 1960s Democrats makes much sense. The Democratic party in the 1960s was a very different organization than what you see today. Keep in mind that in the 1960s, the vast majority of the racist southern whites who wanted to continue segregation were Democrats from states like Texas and Alabama. 'Dixie-crats' they were often called.
After the 1964 Civil Rights Act, many of them jumped ship to the Republican party and this was something Nixon referenced in his 'Southern Strategy'.
Politics is an ever shifting landscape. California for example was run by Republicans for decades and created the Republican Messiah himself Ronald Reagan. Yet today, it is bluer than Papa Smurf.
Edited by Diomedes, : Fixed typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2015 9:14 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 260 of 1639 (765908)
08-07-2015 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by marc9000
08-07-2015 9:14 AM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
But I would have noticed if Chet Huntley and David Brinkley would have been editorializing, blaming a piece of hardware, or a law abiding general public, for crimes committed by a few.
You are simply making an excuse for not knowing what was going on. There was lots of activity in Congress in 1963 and 1964 and you did not notice. The fact that you did not notice is not an argument.
And NONE of them were passed the year after Kennedy was killed. With a Democrat president, Democrat house, and Democrat senate. It took 4 more years. Nothing like today's Democrats.
How many federal gun control bills have been passed in the last decade, marc9000?
Again, this line of argument is not getting you anywhere. It is entirely based on your ignorance of what was going on around you. The 1968 gun acts were finally passed after the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and MLK. If we compare that situation to what is happening today, we find that gun control activity in the 1960s was more substantial and more successful than it is now.
We could also note the uptick in gun control activity after Reagan was shot and John Lennon was killed.
Your comparison is simply BS. I wonder who much of the rest of your rant is similarly flawed.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2015 9:14 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 261 of 1639 (765931)
08-07-2015 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by marc9000
08-07-2015 8:32 AM


Re: The Great White North
The U.S. has resources, but its government has grown so big it's largely handcuffed in its ability to use them.
Right. Yes. So we have plenty of mineral wealth, arable land, oil reserves, skilled workers, etc. But thanks to government interference, all we actually produce are poisonous snakes. This makes us one of the poorest countries in the world, and unable to compete with the mighty economy of Norway, which as everyone knows is a libertarian utopia.
But wait, weren't you originally trying to explain how they can afford to be socialists? If your explanation is that compared to the U.S. they have a small government with laissez-faire economic policies, then wherein does their socialism consist?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2015 8:32 AM marc9000 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 262 of 1639 (765945)
08-08-2015 8:47 AM


Clown Show
Trump refused to back off a pre-debate comment about most women being fat pigs, Scott Walker reiterated his stance that when a woman is in mortal danger from her pregnancy she should die rather than abort, and, in a rather bold moment, Rubio said, yes, he is inexperienced, but if you want someone with a lot of experience then a voter should pick Hillary Clinton.
And, yes, they all talk with god.
The overnight pundits have weighed in and have concluded that the three big winners of last night's Republican debate are Hillary Clinton, Barry Sanders and the Democratic Party.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 263 of 1639 (765976)
08-08-2015 11:42 AM


Things Mike Huckabee Doesn't Know
Huckabee has invented this thing called "the DNA schedule", which totally science-proves that embryos attain personhood at the moment of conception, and also is made-up and doesn't exist.
http://fusion.net/.../huckabee-says-dna-schedule-bad-science

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 264 of 1639 (765979)
08-08-2015 11:45 AM


The Decorations At Clinton's Campaign HQ

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 265 of 1639 (766091)
08-11-2015 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by marc9000
08-07-2015 9:01 AM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
It's astonishing that you SNIPPED OUT the example that I gave.
I used the terms "equal standard of living" as well as "evenly distributed income". There is a difference, and my example that you snipped shows it.
Equally distributed income (or wealth, at least) leads to a more equal standard of living, because most things cost money. Your example dealt directly with income, because it was about the fact that someone had sufficient income to buy a nice car.
Let's use Cuba as an example. The Castro family is worth about $900 million. Bill Gates, Donald Trump etc are worth billions. But Cuba has far more dirt poor people than the U.S. has. Even though Castro has far less money than so many billionaires in the U.S., it's safe to say that he has all he wants to eat, and sleeps in an air conditioned/heated bedroom every night. Most of the poor in the U.S have all they want to eat, and sleep in an air conditioned/heated bedroom every night. The dirt poor of Cuba, many South American countries, many African countries who have more evenly distributed incomes than the U.S. DON"T have all they want to eat, and have never experienced air conditioning.
Comparisons with Cuba are irrelevant, because the option is not limited to 'America as it exists now' or 'Communist dictatorship'.
That said, America has a lot of dirt poor. Finding a country where there a less people who are dirt poor is easy, because I live in one. We have about 9% of the population living below the poverty line, compared to about 15% in the US. Now, these are difficult figures to compared, because our government's have different definitions of poverty' but by coincidence they are actually pretty similar in their definitions of how much money a family would need to earn to count as being below the poverty line at the moment. The same amount of money means different things, of course - taxes are higher here, and so are property costs. But equally we have cheaper health care and better social security, for example.
Now, it's also true that, while we have less people living in poverty, we also have far less people who are rich, and median income is considerably lower. The point here is not that America is some hellhole. It's not - it's a rich country. But it's not the only rich country. Other wealthy or moderately wealthy countries exist, and some of them have more equal standards of living and less people living in poverty.
Why don't you agree with them? What's not logical about them?
What other (more socialist) countries do you see as examples that the U.S. should follow, to arrive at their more equal income distribution, while maintaining the mechanisms that the U.S. currently has that allows everyone to advance overall?
I don't think one exists, I think the utopia that the U.S. left seeks is an impossible one. It's desire is a lack of appreciation for what they have. The very poor in the U.S. have it much better than than the upper middle class in the U.S. had it 100 years ago.
There are no utopias. The question is whether it's possible to have a competitive capitalist economy whilst improving social security. I'd say that several examples in Europe show we can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by marc9000, posted 08-07-2015 9:01 AM marc9000 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-11-2015 1:30 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 266 of 1639 (766095)
08-11-2015 1:27 PM


Poor Rick Perry
Can't pay his staff.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by ramoss, posted 08-11-2015 9:50 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 267 of 1639 (766096)
08-11-2015 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by caffeine
08-11-2015 12:31 PM


Re: Donald Trump is a Democratic plot to make GOP look stupid
Comparisons with Cuba are irrelevant, because the option is not limited to 'America as it exists now' or 'Communist dictatorship'.
If you don't subscribe to false dichotomies, you must love Communism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by caffeine, posted 08-11-2015 12:31 PM caffeine has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 268 of 1639 (766113)
08-11-2015 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Dr Adequate
08-11-2015 1:27 PM


Re: Poor Rick Perry
Some super pac is 'stepping in' to pay their folks lots of money and a big salary to do nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-11-2015 1:27 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by NoNukes, posted 08-12-2015 2:44 AM ramoss has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 1639 (766120)
08-12-2015 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by ramoss
08-11-2015 9:50 PM


Re: Poor Rick Perry
Some super pac is 'stepping in' to pay their folks lots of money and a big salary to do nothing.
Isn't it illegal to do that? I thought PAC spending had to be separate from the official campaign?
ABE:
My Bad.
It is clearly not illegal for a PAC to fund new staff. There are rules in place that don't allow the money to go immediately to current staff. But if history is any predictor such steps indicate a campaign on its last legs.
quote:
In 2012, the support of a super PAC helped former House Speaker Newt Gingrich win South Carolina's primary and continue competing for the presidency after traditional campaign money dried up.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by ramoss, posted 08-11-2015 9:50 PM ramoss has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 270 of 1639 (766219)
08-14-2015 6:24 PM



Replies to this message:
 Message 271 by Omnivorous, posted 08-14-2015 7:36 PM ramoss has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024