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Author Topic:   More on Diet and Carbohydrates
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 127 of 243 (752006)
03-07-2015 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Jon
03-07-2015 4:05 PM


Re: The pervasiveness of the low fat diet
I'm not sure what has given you the impression that I've lived under a rock and not noticed 'low-fat' options nor advice on avoiding fats and cholesterol.
I got the impression that you deny either the existence or the impact of the nationwide propaganda against animal fats and cholesterol and the emphasis on "good" carbs as the healthy way to eat, from your Message 60 and Message 62 to Percy, for instance, and some other posts after that, especially your Message 97 to me in which you almost seem to be saying no such influence exists as Percy and I have experienced it. That's where you say "I don't know anyone who did this," meaning alter their diet to eliminate fats and etc.
If you aren't saying that I need a way to understand why it seems that you are. At the very least you seem to be downplaying it while to me and apparently also to Percy it's been a dominating and just about tyrannical influence on American eating for most of our lives. I don't know ANYONE who wasn't affected by the advice to cut back on fat and cholesterol, making most of their food choices based on it for all those years.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 126 by Jon, posted 03-07-2015 4:05 PM Jon has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 135 of 243 (752123)
03-08-2015 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Jon
03-08-2015 7:30 PM


Re: Anatomy of a Low-Carb Diet
Here's a pyramid for the Atkins Diet that I just found. I didn't check to see if it's up to date but it looks pretty much like what I understand from the diet:
Edited by Admin, : Add image to message.

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 Message 136 by Jon, posted 03-08-2015 8:12 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 137 of 243 (752125)
03-08-2015 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Jon
03-07-2015 6:49 PM


Re: The pervasiveness of the low fat diet
Perhaps it would be clearer to say that although you recognize the pervasiveness of the low fat recommendations you don't consider them to have been very influential on American diet as Percy and I do, let alone your own diet or that of people you know. Is this a fair statement?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 138 of 243 (752127)
03-08-2015 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Jon
03-08-2015 8:12 PM


Re: Anatomy of a Low-Carb Diet
Not serving sizes, that I've found so far anyway, but the pyramid shows the relative proportions recommended: first proteins, then vegetables etc. I don't like everything about that pyramid myself. I'd make vegetables either the biggest portion or equal to proteins, and put fruit up at the top with the grains.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 140 of 243 (752174)
03-09-2015 12:03 PM


Different Metabolic Types
I'm wondering if those who haven't been particularly affected by the pervasive advice about avoiding fats and cholesterol are people who aren't really attracted to fatty foods anyway, so the guidelines didn't require any dietary adjustment?
Thoughts?
This would fit with the idea of different Metabolic Types that some nutritionists have been emphasizing these days. If you're a Carb Type you do well on a high carb diet with less protein and fat, if you're a Protein Type you do better on a low carb diet with more protein and fat. And there are Mixed Types too of course.
There are many Alternative Nutrition sites out there that discuss these types. Mercola is one, Lifestrong is another, Oz is another.
Here's a quiz from Dr. Oz to determine which type you are.

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 Message 141 by Jon, posted 03-09-2015 12:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 142 of 243 (752194)
03-09-2015 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Jon
03-09-2015 12:50 PM


I hate most fatty food. I eat pizza and fried chicken; other than that, I usually cut the fat off my meat, blot my bacon, and drink skim milk.
Very strange that you got Type A. I would have expected you to score as a clear Carb Type, especially from what you are saying here, that does confirm my guess that you were immune to the anti-fat blitz because it isn't your thing anyway.
I LOVE fats, high fat milk, cream, butter, egg yolks, bacon, fatty beef, could eat all the crispy tasty skin off a roast chicken or turkey and even leave the meat behind. This made following the anti-fat advice a real hardship for me.
Interesting that you would choose salty foods as a snack though, since that is supposed to be tied to the Protein Type, which I pretty clearly am. Maybe that's what threw off the quiz. Or maybe you're a Mixed Type. Or maybe the quiz is useless anyway as you suggest.
I wanted to find a quiz and Oz is the only one who had one that didn't require signing up for a bunch of email spam.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 141 by Jon, posted 03-09-2015 12:50 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Jon, posted 03-09-2015 3:47 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 143 of 243 (752209)
03-09-2015 1:50 PM


another quiz
In case anyone is interested in a more thorough quiz about Nutritional Typing and is willing to put up with receiving all kinds of promotional products and risking email spam, here's Mercola's .
As with many quizzes I found some of the questions too hard to answer and am not sure the results amount to much. But it's maybe interesting for curiosity's sake.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 145 of 243 (752246)
03-09-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Jon
03-09-2015 3:47 PM


Muffin or Flaky Pastry Type?
The way you dislike fat makes you a Carb Type it seems to me but maybe they need a category of Mostly Carb with some Protein features thrown in.
Before I knew there were at least two different types of eaters I would have expected people to love the chicken skin and that anyone who threw it away (or preferred skim milk) must be doing it because of the health advice out there. I suppose they would classify jerky on the Protein side, but the usual test is potato chips, which is my downfall.
I came out as a Mixed Type on Mercola's quiz. I knew I wasn't consistently choosing the heaviest protein type meals they described, they really didn't appeal to me, and that's apparently what made the difference. Also didn't go for the carbs though, often chose fish with salad. That's VERY appealing to me and I always thought of it as Atkins style eating.
I've had a rule of thumb for some time to tell who's a carb type versus a protein type that may not be worth anything, especially since you aren't much of a sweet eater either, but I used to meet friends at a local bakery for coffee and something sweet and discovered that there are people who love muffins, heavy muffins with raisins and nuts or cranberries or some such, and I really not only wouldn't choose them but almost dislike them -- too dry and crumbly for me. I have to consider the Muffin people to be Carb Types. My choice was always a flaky buttery pastry with creamy custard and lemon or raspberry jam.
Just to see if my rule of thumb means anything, would either of these choices particularly appeal to you and not the other? Or would you maybe skip the sweet altogether?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Jon, posted 03-09-2015 6:25 PM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 147 of 243 (752264)
03-09-2015 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Jon
03-09-2015 6:25 PM


Atkins servings
Now that I'm fairly convinced I understand why some people weren't affected by the low fat diet guidelines as I was and so many people I know have been, I'm ready to think about the other questions.
Well, I looked for my Atkins book, which I was sure I'd seen recently, couldn't find it, then checked Google asking about portion and serving sizes on Atkins and found a forum discussion saying it's definitely important but then it wasn't about specific portions of carbs or proteins or fat, which is what I think you wanted to know, but just a general guide to overall calorie count.
Does (portion) size matter? : Atkins Diet Forum : Active Low-Carber Forums
Sorry.
What I remember when I was doing it, which probably isn't worth much, but oh well, is that the first phase is pretty much three meals a day (it can be more) of all the protein you want to eat, it's up to your appetite, you eat until you're no longer hungry but you're not to overeat, it's a subjective thing, and you are not restricted on what he calls "normal" fats, meat fats in this case, but added butter on your vegetables if you like. You are limited to 20 grams of carbs a day, most or all of which is to be from greens, (carb-free )salad dressing or butter as appropriate, and nothing else. That's only the "Induction Phase" though, which is to last two weeks, though some people prolong it who want to lose more weight faster. Then you start adding back carbs slowly while you're still maintaining weight loss. And that's where it all gets fuzzy. I don't remember anything about portions or servings, just that it seemed to be comparable to most diet recommendations as far as that goes.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 148 of 243 (752271)
03-09-2015 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Faith
03-09-2015 8:11 PM


Re: Atkins servings
Here's the whole diet spelled out and it includes lots of information on serving sizes for each phase of the four-phase diet plan. This site is a general weight-loss and medical site, not the Atkins site itself, but they claim to be presenting the Atkins diet.
Low Carb Diet

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 157 of 243 (762250)
07-09-2015 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Coyote
07-09-2015 9:46 PM


Re: Is fat's bad rap finally coming to an end?
That's the way to do it. I did it myself and then went back to carbs, at least bread for a hamburger, and pasta.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 160 of 243 (762343)
07-11-2015 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Coyote
07-09-2015 11:17 PM


Re: Is fat's bad rap finally coming to an end?
I hope you are able to continue with your method because it obviously works. Something similar worked for me too, but I got carb cravings and now can't think of a way to get back to a reduced carb system that I could tolerate for long. I don't do sugar or floury foods or cereals or anything like that, but I do have a thing for hamburger on sourdough, quite a bit more often than once a month, and pasta as a side dish with almost anything, and that's all it took to put back the weight I'd lost. It's nice to know there are people who can stick to the low carb diet though, and maybe I'll get inspired again.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 158 by Coyote, posted 07-09-2015 11:17 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Coyote, posted 07-11-2015 11:23 AM Faith has replied
 Message 164 by Phat, posted 07-16-2015 10:39 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 243 (762350)
07-11-2015 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Coyote
07-11-2015 11:23 AM


Re: Is fat's bad rap finally coming to an end?
Well, that's good advice, I'll ponder it. Also keep wanting to get back to vegetable juices, which I love though they are a lot of work.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 243 (762835)
07-16-2015 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Phat
07-16-2015 10:39 AM


Re: Glycemic Index Watch
That's very interesting, Phat, thank you for the information. I do monitor my blood sugar, though not on any regular basis because it's remained pretty predictable for years, so I think I'll do some readings in relation to when I eat sourdough.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 181 of 243 (766264)
08-15-2015 10:04 PM


I never had the idea that you couldn't lose weight on a low-fat diet, I just appreciated how fast I personally could lose when I put the "white" foods (in Omni's grandmother's terms) out of my diet and didn't restrict the natural fats I love. Also appreciated the fact that low fat dieting had come to involve the substitution of bad carbs and I'd seen someone GAIN weight by eating a very low fat but high carb diet.
I'm facing the fact that I have to diet again now and the idea of eating LEAN meat is the hardest part of my doctor's idea of how to go about it. I can't do it that way. I can personally do a lot better if I just chuck the pasta and bread.
But there's always that problem of finding a diet you can live with permanently and I do get carb cravings.
Calories do count in the end as the articles say. I know someone who weighed over three hundred pounds in her twenties and lost it all and kept it off for the rest of her life by weighing her food and counting calories every day. Her daughter inherited her metabolism and went through the exact same history. Both are now at their ideal weight and both very pretty women, but they will only stay that way if they continue to weigh their food every day. I don't know what difference they make between carbs and fat but I suspect it's just a normal balance of both and it's the calorie count that matters.
What I'd like to know is why I was always on the skinny side until my late teens from eating my Mom's cooking which didn't restrict fats OR carbs and why a person couldn't just live happily that way through life. I do know I started gaining weight when I lived with relatives who ate a much richer diet, and I think it was the increased sugar that was the problem in that case. Went back to being skinny through my twenties, gained some when I had my daughter (very clearly from following health guru Adele Davis' requirements), but didn't have a real problem until my forties when restricting fat was supposed to be the key to weight loss. Now I don't think I even know what normal eating is any more.
But I do know I can lose if I cut the carbs so that's my plan for the next few months.

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Coyote, posted 08-15-2015 11:20 PM Faith has replied
 Message 184 by Percy, posted 08-16-2015 8:01 AM Faith has replied

  
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