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Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: White Privilege | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Are we sure you're white? We can only go with the evidence we have. Walks like a duck + talks like a duck = duck , with a pretty high confidence level. We don't often hear cows quacking and we don't often hear black people scoffing at the idea of white privilege.
Are you sure of that?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
Sure I do. As I said, "... we don't often hear black people scoffing at the idea of white privilege." Since you scoff at the idea of white privilege, that's a clue that you're white.
In other words, you haven't a clue.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tangle writes:
I think you have that backwards. There are no "natural rights". Maybe there "should" be but there aren't. There are only privileges granted by one group to another.
It's not a privilege, it's a right - a human right that should be available to all. The whole idea of privilege is a wrong-headed anachronism.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
But they don't apply equally to all. That's the point of this thread. Maybe they "should" but they don't. Hence, they are privileges.
There's just rights that we grant ourselves as our societies become enlightened. In our culture these are not privileges granted to a few, they apply to all. Tangle writes:
Of course it's not a privilege to be white. But it is a "reason" to receive privileged treatment.
It's not a privilege to be white, it's an accident of birth... Tangle writes:
You contradict yourself. If we are struggling to achieve those freedoms in practice then they haven't "actually" been granted at all. They have only been hypothetically granted. They are privileges, possibly on their way toward becoming actual rights.
... an inequality in our society that some parts of it still struggle to achieve in practice the freedoms that have actually been been granted to all.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
But the rights do not "apply" to all; they are hypothetically there but not actually there.
The rights apply to all, the fact that some appear to enjoy less of them is a flaw in our society, not a flaw in the rights. Tangle writes:
And "rights" which apply only to a privileged few are called privileges.
... whites do not receive privileged treatment, they recieve the treatment that the rights grant them. Blacks, it is claimed, do not yet receive them in full. Tangle writes:
Privileged can be used as a synonym for lucky - unless you're assuming that white people are more deserving of their "rights".
The fact that some are still fighting to achieve them in reality is a damn shame but that doesn't make those that have full access to the rights 'privileged' - unless you're using the word to mean lucky.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
In my mind, equality is more important than vague artificial "rights" for some and not for others. Yes, you do have to "take away" power from one group to make it equal, just like you have to take away power from the King to give to the people. Boo hoo.
... correcting this will have to involve some sort of power that takes away from that same group. In my mind, two wrongs don't make a right. Phat writes:
Yes.
And what of wealthy people and the privilege they enjoy? Should we force all of them to give up their excess money?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
The point is that it's easy to dismiss the problem by claiming that people "have" equal rights when they don't. The people we are talking about neither have their cake nor have they eaten it because other people have both pieces. You claim that there "is" enough cake to go around, ignoring the fact that only the privileged actually have cake. As usual Ringo, you wish to pointlessly argue the meaning of words rather than grapple with the underlying ideas behind them. So yes, the meaning of words is important.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
So let's change the title of the thread to "Black Disprivilege".
A man with both legs is not privileged amongst a group of veterans with no legs. He has what everyone should have and they are disadvantaged because they don't.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Tangle writes:
Only to you, apparently.
Privilege has unnecessary and unwarranted connotations....
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm not hurt by wheelchair ramps.
Would any other groups get hurt by correcting such benefits?
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ramoss writes:
I only think about wheelchairs when I see a wheelchair ramp, not when I climb the stairs. It's a privilege to be able to walk.
If you can do something without having to think about it, or worry about consequences, while other people DO have to worry about consequences, due to their race/religion/age/gender, then it's a privilege.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
What the hell are "bimboisms"?
You care so little about the welfare of African Americans that you cannot give up your bimboisms....
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
The ability to walk is certainly an advantage "granted" to a particular group. something normally available to all can not be a privilege. Education is also an advantage granted to a particular group - which illustrates why dictionary definitions are not a useful argument.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
As I pointed out, YOUR dictionary definition agrees with ME.
ringo writes:
...particularly when they prove you to be dead flat wrong. dictionary definitions are not a useful argument.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
That's the most sensible thing you've said in this thread - but you left out the dictionary definition.
Cockwomble
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