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Author Topic:   White Privilege
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 13 of 276 (766438)
08-18-2015 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jon
08-17-2015 9:40 PM


Re: Nonsense In = Sociology Out
Jon writes:
Are you sure of that?
Are we sure you're white? We can only go with the evidence we have. Walks like a duck + talks like a duck = duck , with a pretty high confidence level. We don't often hear cows quacking and we don't often hear black people scoffing at the idea of white privilege.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 08-17-2015 9:40 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Jon, posted 08-18-2015 6:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 52 of 276 (766600)
08-19-2015 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Jon
08-18-2015 6:40 PM


Re: Nonsense In = Sociology Out
Jon writes:
In other words, you haven't a clue.
Sure I do. As I said, "... we don't often hear black people scoffing at the idea of white privilege." Since you scoff at the idea of white privilege, that's a clue that you're white.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Jon, posted 08-18-2015 6:40 PM Jon has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 55 of 276 (766605)
08-19-2015 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Tangle
08-19-2015 3:54 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
It's not a privilege, it's a right - a human right that should be available to all.
The whole idea of privilege is a wrong-headed anachronism.
I think you have that backwards. There are no "natural rights". Maybe there "should" be but there aren't. There are only privileges granted by one group to another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2015 3:54 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2015 4:27 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 58 of 276 (766614)
08-19-2015 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Tangle
08-19-2015 4:27 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
There's just rights that we grant ourselves as our societies become enlightened. In our culture these are not privileges granted to a few, they apply to all.
But they don't apply equally to all. That's the point of this thread. Maybe they "should" but they don't. Hence, they are privileges.
Tangle writes:
It's not a privilege to be white, it's an accident of birth...
Of course it's not a privilege to be white. But it is a "reason" to receive privileged treatment.
Tangle writes:
... an inequality in our society that some parts of it still struggle to achieve in practice the freedoms that have actually been been granted to all.
You contradict yourself. If we are struggling to achieve those freedoms in practice then they haven't "actually" been granted at all. They have only been hypothetically granted. They are privileges, possibly on their way toward becoming actual rights.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2015 4:27 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2015 5:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 77 of 276 (766690)
08-20-2015 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Tangle
08-19-2015 5:12 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
The rights apply to all, the fact that some appear to enjoy less of them is a flaw in our society, not a flaw in the rights.
But the rights do not "apply" to all; they are hypothetically there but not actually there.
Tangle writes:
... whites do not receive privileged treatment, they recieve the treatment that the rights grant them. Blacks, it is claimed, do not yet receive them in full.
And "rights" which apply only to a privileged few are called privileges.
Tangle writes:
The fact that some are still fighting to achieve them in reality is a damn shame but that doesn't make those that have full access to the rights 'privileged' - unless you're using the word to mean lucky.
Privileged can be used as a synonym for lucky - unless you're assuming that white people are more deserving of their "rights".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Tangle, posted 08-19-2015 5:12 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2015 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 78 of 276 (766691)
08-20-2015 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
08-20-2015 3:19 AM


Re: some privilege
Phat writes:
... correcting this will have to involve some sort of power that takes away from that same group. In my mind, two wrongs don't make a right.
In my mind, equality is more important than vague artificial "rights" for some and not for others. Yes, you do have to "take away" power from one group to make it equal, just like you have to take away power from the King to give to the people. Boo hoo.
Phat writes:
And what of wealthy people and the privilege they enjoy? Should we force all of them to give up their excess money?
Yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 08-20-2015 3:19 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 81 of 276 (766703)
08-20-2015 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Tangle
08-20-2015 12:52 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
As usual Ringo, you wish to pointlessly argue the meaning of words rather than grapple with the underlying ideas behind them.
The point is that it's easy to dismiss the problem by claiming that people "have" equal rights when they don't. The people we are talking about neither have their cake nor have they eaten it because other people have both pieces. You claim that there "is" enough cake to go around, ignoring the fact that only the privileged actually have cake.
So yes, the meaning of words is important.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Tangle, posted 08-20-2015 12:52 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 102 of 276 (767041)
08-25-2015 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Tangle
08-25-2015 1:06 PM


Re: are we having a misunderstanding?
Tangle writes:
A man with both legs is not privileged amongst a group of veterans with no legs. He has what everyone should have and they are disadvantaged because they don't.
So let's change the title of the thread to "Black Disprivilege".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Tangle, posted 08-25-2015 1:06 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Tangle, posted 08-25-2015 1:25 PM ringo has replied
 Message 104 by xongsmith, posted 08-25-2015 1:27 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 105 of 276 (767045)
08-25-2015 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Tangle
08-25-2015 1:25 PM


Re: are we having a misunderstanding?
Tangle writes:
Privilege has unnecessary and unwarranted connotations....
Only to you, apparently.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Tangle, posted 08-25-2015 1:25 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 121 of 276 (767149)
08-26-2015 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Phat
08-26-2015 10:08 AM


Re: are we having a misunderstanding?
Phat writes:
Would any other groups get hurt by correcting such benefits?
I'm not hurt by wheelchair ramps.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 08-26-2015 10:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 134 of 276 (767256)
08-27-2015 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by ramoss
08-26-2015 3:02 PM


Re: some privilege
ramoss writes:
If you can do something without having to think about it, or worry about consequences, while other people DO have to worry about consequences, due to their race/religion/age/gender, then it's a privilege.
I only think about wheelchairs when I see a wheelchair ramp, not when I climb the stairs. It's a privilege to be able to walk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by ramoss, posted 08-26-2015 3:02 PM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2015 1:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 135 of 276 (767267)
08-27-2015 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Jon
08-27-2015 7:54 AM


Re: are we having a misunderstanding?
Jon writes:
You care so little about the welfare of African Americans that you cannot give up your bimboisms....
What the hell are "bimboisms"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Jon, posted 08-27-2015 7:54 AM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 137 of 276 (767271)
08-27-2015 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Tangle
08-27-2015 1:14 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
something normally available to all can not be a privilege.
The ability to walk is certainly an advantage "granted" to a particular group.
Education is also an advantage granted to a particular group - which illustrates why dictionary definitions are not a useful argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2015 1:14 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2015 1:32 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 142 of 276 (767328)
08-28-2015 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Tangle
08-27-2015 1:32 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
ringo writes:
dictionary definitions are not a useful argument.
...particularly when they prove you to be dead flat wrong.
As I pointed out, YOUR dictionary definition agrees with ME.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Tangle, posted 08-27-2015 1:32 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 08-28-2015 2:18 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 144 of 276 (767439)
08-29-2015 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Tangle
08-28-2015 2:18 PM


Re: some privilege
Tangle writes:
Cockwomble
That's the most sensible thing you've said in this thread - but you left out the dictionary definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Tangle, posted 08-28-2015 2:18 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2015 12:38 PM ringo has replied

  
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