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Author Topic:   White Privilege
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 31 of 276 (766541)
08-18-2015 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Jon
08-18-2015 9:13 PM


Re: Getting the Facts Straight
Jon writes:
I posted the graph not to point out anything 'salient' but to show how meaningless it is using terms like '[insert group name here] privilege'.
So there's no white male [privilege/advantage] shown in that chart?
Jon writes:
Is this sufficient to explain the drastic difference between white and African American performance on many meaningful metrics related to quality of life?
Probably not.
So what's your explanation?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Jon, posted 08-18-2015 9:13 PM Jon has replied

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 276 (766543)
08-18-2015 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Omnivorous
08-18-2015 9:52 PM


Re: Getting the Facts Straight
So there's no white male [privilege/advantage] shown in that chart?
The chart shows that white males out-earn females from all groups; that Asian males out-earn males and females from all groups; that black females out-earn Hispanic males; etc.
The chart shows exactly what it says it shows.
So what's your explanation?
A lot of things, many I've mentioned before. For example the traditional system of funding public education perpetuates income disparities by setting up children from poor neighborhoods with poor educations.

Love your enemies!

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 33 of 276 (766546)
08-19-2015 2:21 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
08-18-2015 2:24 PM


Re: Reverse Discrimination?
randomness is akin to socialism. I believe that people should be chosen strictly based on ability. Why not leave names and other data that identifies a cultural racial profile and judge workers entirely on merit?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 276 (766547)
08-19-2015 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by RAZD
08-18-2015 8:44 PM


Re: Reverse Discrimination?
RAZD writes:
Do you feel entitled to maintain the status quo even though it is not just?
Whats the alternative? I don't feel that my generation should be punished due to the sins of our forefathers, if that's what you mean.
I will admit that there are no easy solutions.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(2)
Message 35 of 276 (766548)
08-19-2015 2:45 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
08-19-2015 2:21 AM


Re: Reverse Discrimination?
Phat writes:
quote:
I believe that people should be chosen strictly based on ability. Why not leave names and other data that identifies a cultural racial profile and judge workers entirely on merit?
That's a lovely idea that is impossible to achieve. You don't interact with "merit." The people in your office don't leave their names and "other data" at the door. Your resume doesn't merely list "neutral" data. Which college did you go to? Hmmm..."historically black." What did you major in? "Male dominated." That internship you did with Lambda Legal? "Gay."
And then, of course, you come in for an interview and any pretense of "neutrality" and "anonymity" goes out the window.
And should you actually get the job, you now have to deal with the myriad ways in which the reality of who you are is going to be used against you.
Being white, male, Christian, straight, etc. doesn't mean you're going to have a perfect life. There are poor whites, poor men, poor Christians, poor straights. But even those who are poor are better off if they are white, male, Christian, straight.
The idea that your parents "worked hard," while probably true so far as it goes, ignores all the benefits they received for being part of the majority. Privilege is not a magic wand. You don't get to wave it say, "I'm Elmer J. Fudd. Where's my mansion and yacht?"
But few people will question you for why you have a mansion and a yacht. Do you really deny "driving while black" as a real thing?
From 2008 to 2013, would it surprise you to learn that not a single unarmed white person was shot by the cops in New York City? How many times do we have to hear about the cops allowing a white person who is actually brandishing a weapon and shooting at the cops to be taken in without any gunfire on the part of the police while them immediately shooting black people for simply holding a toy gun in a toy store that sells toy guns before we consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, white people are not treated the same way as black people?
quote:
I don't feel that my generation should be punished due to the sins of our forefathers
What makes you think the sins aren't yours?
Edited by Rrhain, : Combining responses to two posts into one.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 36 of 276 (766550)
08-19-2015 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by AZPaul3
08-18-2015 9:25 PM


Re: some privilege
I'm sick of this social milieu in which a person is never left alone but accused of a million things that never even crossed our minds. Big Brother breathing down our necks. Mind your own business.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 37 of 276 (766552)
08-19-2015 6:36 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
08-19-2015 5:37 AM


If Re: some privilege
It's one thing to try to persuade someone to a point of view, to try to motivate compassion toward some group or person, to offer suggestions about what could be done, it's something entirely different to point the finger at people for failing to do something YOU think they should do, accuse them, vilify them, and fail to sympathize with their own problems. That's the method of liberalism. Liberals are intrusive self-righteous busybodies. Mind your own business.

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Replies to this message:
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Heathen
Member (Idle past 1282 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


(4)
Message 38 of 276 (766555)
08-19-2015 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
08-18-2015 8:00 PM


Re: Getting the Facts Straight
I was made to feel guilty for sins I never committed
That's the whole basis of your belief system Faith.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 39 of 276 (766557)
08-19-2015 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
08-18-2015 1:44 PM


Re: some privilege
Even granting that white privilege exists as described by some here, the problem I think Phat is trying to bring to the table is that middle class and working class whites hardly feel privileged, ...
That's because you are trained to think that privilege only applies to the upper class and uber rich and that you should aspire to become one.
... and when we hear that we are we resent those who seem to us to be trying to bump us off the social map with their claims of being underprivileged ...
But you are privileged. Even just walking through a store without being followed by an employee to see if you are shoplifting is privilege - you are not automatically assumed to be a priori guilty.
... and deserving special treatment.
Equal treatment is not special treatment" but it is just treatment.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 40 of 276 (766558)
08-19-2015 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by NoNukes
08-18-2015 2:46 PM


Employee Selection
Sure. That way I could miss out on hiring both the top Howard Law School grad and the top Duke Law School grad that I interviewed.
Will that necessarily translate into being able to do the job better than someone else? My Duke degree certainly provided me with some "privilege" in being considered for jobs ... even though I rarely used what I learned for grades in those jobs.
[abe]And what about the applicants that are just as smart and creative but didn't have the opportunity to go to Howard or Duke?[/abe]
Personally I think that once the basic requirements have been met for a position, that other aspects of behavior and social skills become more important.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : abe

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 41 of 276 (766560)
08-19-2015 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Phat
08-19-2015 2:21 AM


Re: Reverse Discrimination?
randomness is akin to socialism. I believe that people should be chosen strictly based on ability. ...
Ummm is something wrong with socialism? That's why we have roads you know.
And when you get 200 applications of which say 50 people meet or exceed the basic requirements ... what criteria do you use to pick *one* candidate?
... Why not leave names and other data that identifies a cultural racial profile and judge workers entirely on merit?
A lottery system for those that meet the basic criteria would not use cultural\racial clues or even the results of long term cultural\racial discrimination.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 42 of 276 (766561)
08-19-2015 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
08-19-2015 2:36 AM


Wage Discrimination?
Whats the alternative? I don't feel that my generation should be punished due to the sins of our forefathers, if that's what you mean.
If you want to maintain the status quo because you benefit from it, and feel entitled to because it was your forefathers that created it not you, then you are perpetuating the system of privileges and biases and discrimination.
Why should people continue to be punished when their forefathers did not create the system but were oppressed by it?
The alternative is to work for increase wage justice and workers rights for ALL people, to form a unified front to insist on a minimum living wage, to insist on mandatory overtime for all workers, to insist on full benefits for all workers, to insist on better education opportunities, etc.
The alternative is to work together.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : ]

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 43 of 276 (766562)
08-19-2015 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
08-19-2015 6:36 AM


Re: If Re: some privilege
...accused of a million things that never even crossed our minds.
No more sleep walking through life, Faith. Now you know. No more excuses.
Mind your own business.
We live here, Faith. The injustices of this society most certainly are our business. Our business, Faith. If you want to ignore these issues because you think life has given you a hard enough row without being black in a racist white society that's fine. I have enough social justice warrior left in me to pick up the slack.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 08-19-2015 6:36 AM Faith has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 44 of 276 (766564)
08-19-2015 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by AZPaul3
08-19-2015 8:37 AM


Re: some privilege
I'm sorry, liberal fingerpointing is disgusting. Your accusatory attitude is nauseating. Who said anything about ignoring anything, that's your busybody liberal mindset working overtime. I haven't said a word about my own opinion of the problems of white privilege, what I'm talking about is the Big Brother attitude, making stuff up to accuse people of. That's what you're doing. Yuck, blech. Liberals don't know how to do anything but accuse accuse accuse, pick an issue and accuse somebody of it. Put themselves in judgment over others. And no, I do not do that.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 276 (766565)
08-19-2015 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by AZPaul3
08-18-2015 7:03 PM


Re: some privilege
Because the pools are drawn from voter rolls and the white structures are set to discourage blacks from registering to vote.
How's that work?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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