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Author Topic:   There is no evolution or creationism - this is the new Matrix/DNA world view
Taq
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Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 101 of 149 (763096)
07-20-2015 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Isabel
07-20-2015 11:30 AM


Re: Big bang
I think the gap between humans and animals is so big that any explanation is less believable than the explanation that we are visited by extraterrestrial astronauts.

The gap between humans and chimps is just a few percent (98% by substitutions, 96% counting indels). That is less of a gap than there is between chimps and gorillas. That's right. The gap between chimps and humans is less than the gap between chimps and any other ape.

As to extraterrestrial astronauts, why would they have DNA that is 98% chimp DNA if they evolved somewhere else?


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 Message 100 by Isabel, posted 07-20-2015 11:30 AM Isabel has not replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 106 of 149 (765697)
08-04-2015 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by ICANT
08-04-2015 2:00 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Mutations are not a game. They are either beneficial or detrimental to the cell.

You forgot a third option: neutral.

But beneficial or detrimental they can not produce new information.

In order for this claim to be relevant, you need to show that evolution would need to produce new information (as you define it) in order to produce the biodiversity we see today.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by ICANT, posted 08-11-2015 10:26 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
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Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 107 of 149 (765698)
08-04-2015 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by ICANT
08-04-2015 1:28 PM


Re: To Percy
When the male sperm and the female egg combine the 23 chromosomes from each the DNA required to build a human exists in whatever you want to call that entity. I call it a human being.

The amazing thing is that the DNA that is present at that moment will always produce a human being. It never produces any other creature.

Since that human being has a mind, body and spirit what ever the existence before T=0 was it would have the same as man is created in that image and likeness.

That is a lot of empty assertions. What you are ignoring is that the DNA in sperm and eggs carries mutations, so offspring are going to be different than their parents. Also, mutation is random as are the specific egg and sperm that unite to form that offspring. There is no guarantee at any point that a specific human will be produced. The same two parents will produce a different human being every time, with its own specific genome that is different from parents and siblings.

As you move forward in time and humans change, at what point do you no longer call them humans? At one time there were only wolves. Now there are wolves and thousands of dog breeds. At what point did a wolf stop being a wolf and become a Chihuahua?

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


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Taq
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Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 127 of 149 (766385)
08-17-2015 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by ICANT
08-11-2015 10:26 AM


Re: To Dr Adequate
If each human cell has all the information required to build a human body, how can the information in those cells produce anything other than a human body?

Sperm and egg cells do not have all the information needed to build a human body. When they combine to create a new genome, they create a genome that has never existed before. If you want to call it a wolf, Chihuahua, human, or whatever, that is up to you. What is important is that this organism with this genome has never existed before.

Over time, mutations in each generation will keep accumulating. When you compare individuals that lived millions of years apart there may very well be differences between them. At one point does one become the other? That is entirely arbitrary.

When does someone go from young to old? When does a young man go from being short to being tall? Skinny to fat, and maybe back to skinny? These are spectrums, just as evolutionary change is.


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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 128 of 149 (766387)
08-17-2015 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by ICANT
08-17-2015 3:42 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
What is observed is that at different times in the earth's history that all of a sudden a lot of new species appeared and was observed.

That is exactly what we should see with evolution when those time points are separated by millions of years.

If all we had of you was two pictures, one from when you were 5 and another when you were 50, could we say that you suddenly became old instead of gradually aging?


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Taq
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Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 129 of 149 (766388)
08-17-2015 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by ICANT
08-17-2015 3:54 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
You mean asking if the DNA in each cell contained all the information to build a human body and how information can be added to that DNA is an argument. I thought it was a question.

The accumulation of mutations over time causes species to be different through time.

You have one of two choices.

1. You can say that mutations can't produce new information. If that is your argument, then you have argued yourself out of the debate. If differences in DNA sequence that give rise to changes in morphology are not changes in information, then evolution doesn't need to produce new information in order to produce the biodiversity we see today.

2. You just admit that the most honest approach is to admit that mutations can produce new information.

The problem is that anti-evolutionists focus so hard on making it impossible for mutations to produce new information that they lose sight of what they were really trying to explain, how morphology can change over time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by ICANT, posted 08-17-2015 3:54 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2015 12:57 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 146 of 149 (766618)
08-19-2015 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by ICANT
08-18-2015 12:44 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Taking the human sperm and egg of which each has 23 different chromosomes making a total of 46 chromosomes when they are combined you have a human, and you can never take those 46 chromosomes and produce anything other than a human.

Based on what criteria?

I liked the way you parsed your words 'may very well be' differences between them and there may not be differences. But I am inclined to believe there would be differences as their diet would be different and their living conditions would be different.

Are chimps and humans different because our diets and living conditions are different? If we started living in the water like whales do, would we start giving birth to whales?

Or are the differences between species due to DNA base differences in their genomes?

The day you are born you begin to die.
The Dna information in the cells will control your growth. It will not make you go from fat to skinny that is controlled by you and the input of food into your system.

But a human getting old and creped and dying is only change to that human body and will never cause it to be or produce anything but a human body with joining of sperm of a human male and the egg of a human female.

At what precise nanometer does someone go from being short to being tall, and how do you justify that precise height?


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8525
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 147 of 149 (766623)
08-19-2015 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by ICANT
08-18-2015 12:57 PM


Re: To Dr Adequate
Yes,

I took a wild hog and bred him with a polen china sow.
I took one of their offspring and bred him to a duroc sow.
I took one of their offspring and bred him to a polen china sow from a different line tham the first one.
With each breeding the offspring got bigger and bigger.
After 10 such selective breeding's the offspring was weighing between 900 and 1000 lbs. But everyone of them was hogs.

I am talking about a population of organisms over much longer time periods. Your example is not homologous or analogous.

Also, the theory of evolution also says that they will still be pigs, but perhaps pigs that are different from their ancestors, or perhaps a new species of pig.


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