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Author | Topic: Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
In a democracy, the individuals are responsible for the actions of the state.
Jesus was talking to individuals as usual, not to the criminal prosecutor of a state.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jesus was talking to individuals as usual, not to the criminal prosecutor of a state.
In a democracy, the individuals are responsible for the actions of the state. Which individuals? We all vote in different directions. However, the actions of the state should operate more like the Law of the Old Testament, I don't say exactly, but more like, eye for an eye being a fair statement of perfect justice. Jesus was talking about how individuals should deal with a slap on the cheek or the stealing of a cloak. That's not a recipe for the prosecution of criminal cases.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Jesus was correcting the misconception that people like you have about "an eye for an eye".
Jesus was talking about how individuals should deal with a slap on the cheek or the stealing of a cloak. That's not a recipe for the prosecution of criminal cases.quote:Thou shalt GIVE, not thou shalt take - i.e. if you put out somebody's eye, you owe him an eye. An example is given in the next verse: quote:If you take one eye, you give up all claim to the other one. It's not an excuse for vengeance; it's a repayment scheme.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 285 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I'm not required to treat Hinduism as a "valid religion," whatever that means. Far as I know I can call Hinduism a satanic idolatrous religion without being treated like a criminal. But the same is not true if I say the Bible calls homosexuality a sin and makes gay marriage a violation of God's marriage ordinance. No. Hence my offer of a wager.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Seems to me that the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage is already a fulfillment of my prediction that we bet about before, that things would get worse for Christians over the next few years or something like that. I'll wait for a few more incidents before I ask you to pay up though.
No more wagers. The timing of things is never certain. Things seem very close but often take longer than we expect even though they do finally occur. Christians seem to be a target of all the gay marriage action but it may take a while before it plays out in any clearcut way. Although the destruction of Christian businesses is already pretty clearcut. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
"But the same is not true if I say the Bible calls homosexuality a sin and makes gay marriage a violation of God's marriage ordinance." Two questions come to mind here. If God wanted us to deny gays the right to seek loving life mates, and if that is cruel and anti-love, which it is, why did God create gays in the first place? As to God's marriage ordinance. He would have created the divorce ordinance at the same time as the marriage one. Do you find that divorce ordinance moral and just and exactly what is it? I ask because better than 50% of Christian marriages end in divorce so it seems that Christians have rejected God's marriage and divorce ordinances. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Coyote
In a sense you are correct but in a Gnostic Christian sense, you are wrong. Said of Gnostic Christian versus Christian bible reading practices. Both read the Bible day and night; but you read black where I read white.William Blake. I would take this further and advise you to read any scriptures from as many POV as is within you. Question everything including yourself. The bible, if read as a book of wisdom, does have much wisdom though. You just have to read it the way Gnostics do and revers a lot of the Christian morals. Christians call evil good while Gnostic Christians call evil, evil. I E. Gnostic Christians think that bible God, the demiurge to us, is quite immoral for thinking that torturing King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it is good justice. Gnostic Christians think that evil while Christians think that a good form of justice. Which group do you think is right? RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
ringo
Altruistic acts can go only the one way. Love takes 2. You cannot love alone. You will know those you love and who love you by what you do for each other. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS7X3Xolq-I RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
?? When a prophet speaks, he speaks to all. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
ringo
Seems that most individuals are not taking their responsibilities to heart if you are correct. Then again, we live in oligarchies and not democracies. If we did individually take responsibility for the state then the state would not allow what we presently have. 9 out of 10 Americans are completely wrong about this mind-blowing fact. - Upworthy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzQYA9Qjsi0 RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
Do you know what Gandhi said of an eye for an eye and do you agree with him? "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind." If not, why not? Do you know why he would have thought that an eye for an eye was not justice? RegardsDL
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Which group do you think is right? I tend to ignore the religious beliefs of all 40,000 or so extant world religions. That number alone should provide a major clue...Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Coyote
I was looking for your moral view. Do you see Yahweh as a good God or an evil one? RegardsDL
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If Jesus meant to preach about how nations should prosecute criminals he would have preached to Pilate or perhaps even asked for an audience with Caesar. No, Jesus ALWAYS preached to individual believers, how we as individuals are to live. ALWAYS.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No I do not agree with Gandhi. I consider that to be one of the stuppiddest things ever said by an otherwise great man.
The whole world blind? Nonsense. How often is an eye damaged anyway? A tooth? That formula is, I'll say it again, a statement of perfect justice, and as I've understood it the intention was to correct for the excesses tribal peoples brought to their revenge, such as putting out both eyes or lopping off the head for damage to one eye, or punching out all the teeth for the loss of one. One eye for one eye, one tooth for one tooth, is perfect justice. ABE: Jesus did not come to enforce the laws of justice. He came to teach us individual believers how to love our neighbors even when we are persecuted by them. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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