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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: White Privilege | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I'm not hurt by wheelchair ramps.
Would any other groups get hurt by correcting such benefits?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Is awareness itself the solution? Or...are other measures needed....and if so, how would they be implemented? From my Message 30 above, with emphasis:
quote:
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ramoss Member (Idle past 633 days) Posts: 3228 Joined:
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Another thing about privilege, you don't have to think about it. It just is. If you can do something without having to think about it, or worry about consequences, while other people DO have to worry about consequences, due to their race/religion/age/gender, then it's a privilege.
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
AZP with emphasis writes:
If you remain unaware then you cannot help change the society through your vote, your conversations, your blog. If you do not stop, look and listen, if you do not learn, if you do not become aware, then you perpetuate the injustice. You are the oppressor whether it's active or not, whether you know it or not. We all are. Agree. But I couldn't help thinking this sounds a little like:
If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. - xongsmith, 5.7d
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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But I couldn't help thinking this sounds a little like: If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. I was hoping it would sound exactly a lot like that.
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Jon Inactive Member |
Looking around to find some different opinions on this, I stumbled on this fellow. I honestly don't even know what to quote, so I'm just gonna link to the whole thing:
Jesse Lee Peterson: "'White Privilege' Is Not What Is Holding Blacks Back Today" from cnsnews.comLove your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
Incorrect. It doesn't mean that at all. But about half the people participating in this thread are telling you that that's exactly what it means to them. When you are framing the discussion in a way that alienates even the people who agree with you, it's time to consider whether that one term is so important or whether it could be done away with to improve the flow of dialogue. Add to this the fact that the term is entirely meaningless, provokes no thought, and solves no problems and it really is a wonder why you're so damn attached to it. Can't you give it up for the sake of getting somewhere?Love your enemies!
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Tangle responds to me:
quote: Incorrect. I explain it exactly opposite to the way you claim. The existence of privilege is not a claim against the one who has the privilege. It is a claim against the society that creates it. Because even people who are not in the dominant group often help to sustain the privilege. Do you not know of the studies regarding how children view race? An array of identical cartoon people are shown to children, wearing the same thing and in the same pose, the only difference being the skin color ranging from very pale to very deep. They are then asked to indicate which one is the "most friendly" or "most naughty" or "most likely to help you" or "most likely to get in trouble." And across all races, children associate being lighter skinned with more positive traits and being darker skinned with more negative traits. Even black people have this vision of black people being not as worthy and it starts early. Again, this doesn't mean that any white person is actively trying to keep black people down. But it does mean that he lives in a world that is going to lift him up. To deny that reality is the problem because it means that it will never go away. By refusing to acknowledge the way society works, often through unconscious means, to perpetuate racism, you guarantee that racism will continue to flourish.
quote: (*blink!*) You did not just say that, did you? A direct statement that the white person is not doing something is an implication that he is? Privilege isn't something you wield over others. It's something that others place upon you. That's why it is not, cannot be a negative against the person who has it. You don't get to tell other people that you're white and demand that they treat you better. It's something they do all on their own. How can you possibly be at fault for the behaviour of other people? You didn't create the view in their mind about how white people are. You didn't make them consider you in another way. You didn't make them decide to treat you differently. But they still did. You are still being treated better because of your race. That isn't your fault. But to deny that reality is your fault. To get angry or upset because it's being pointed out is your fault.
quote: Then how fortunate that the only person who made that claim was you. The only person trying to insinuate that "white privilege" is a "racist slander" that "labels all white people as oppressors" is you.
quote: Physician, heal thyself.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Jon quotes CNS.
Really? You expect us to take CNS seriously? A racist, sexist, homophobic source is where you're going to for intelligent analysis on discrimination? Let's take a look at what it brings up: * Black-on-black crime. How does black-on-black crime have any bearing on white cops killing black people? Let's ignore the fact that the subject itself is completely invalid (that somehow blacks are "more criminal" than whites...can you smell the racism?) I want to understand how even if it were true it is relevant. How does the action of blacks with regard to each other justify a white cop's killing of a black person? * Out-of-wedlock births. Again, what does this have to do with anything? * War on Poverty/affirmative action claims that black people have been recipients of undeserving welfare making them morally broken. It even claims that there is "black privilege" because of this. I love this quote:
Blacks can say whatever they want about whites with little fear of criticism or backlash. Hah! Look at the conversation we're having. So I have to ask again: What on earth were you thinking using CNS as a source? Edited by Rrhain, : Fixed a formatting issue.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Jon responds to me:
quote: Just because two million people do a dumb thing, it's still a dumb thing. We don't accept the false claims of creationists about what evolution means because they are wrong. They don't understand what it is or how it works, so why should we pretend that there is some "controversy"? I get that Tangle wants it to be a slur against white people, but the only person making it so is him. And then there's you, who tries to palm off a racist as some sort of legitimate source to consider with regard to race.
quote: Strange, that's my argument to you. It is a very meaningful term, provokes quite a bit of thought, and solves actual problems so it really is a wonder why you're so upset over it. Can't you give up your obstinacy for the sake of getting somewhere? Your claims are trivially shown to be false by simple inspection. Remember, you're the one who is dismissing an entire movement based upon the actions of two people who aren't actually connected to the movement. As a friend of mine put it, if your outlook can be changed by someone talking to you for fifteen minutes, then it wasn't your outlook to begin with. So let's be honest: You never really had any respect for the Black Lives Matter movement.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Jon Inactive Member |
A source for what?
I was just looking around for other opinions.Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
You care so little about the welfare of African Americans that you cannot give up your bimboisms so that you and people who agree with you can stop arguing about terminology and get to the issue of how to solve real problems. While you accuse everyone else of being petty, you yourself refuse to take the high road.
It's clear to me, Rrhain, from your unwillingness to offer any suggestions anywhere (you've had two threads to do as much) that you aren't sincerely interested in improving the welfare of minorities in this country. You are so glued to the term 'white privilege' because you can use it exactly as Tangle accuses you of using it: as an accusatory slur. Going around calling other people racists may help you sleep at night with dreams of holier-than-thou self-righteousness, but it doesn't get African Americans out of prison; it doesn't keep bullets out of bodies; it doesn't put kids in school. I've started a new thread for anyone who honestly cares about this subject:
Improving the Welfare of Minorities - Slogans Not Allowed Real problems need real solutions; not you and your white bashing.Love your enemies!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... It's why the "#AllLivesMatter" backlash is the problem: It isn't that white people don't have problems. It's that black lives have different problems that need to be addressed directly in order to have them fixed and to sidetrack and distract from that focus will ensure that they never get fixed. ... My take on this is an analogy to a swimming pool full of people, one person is drowning and someone tells the lifeguard #drowninglivesmatter ... someone replies that #allswimmerlivesmatter, and while both are true, only one needs help. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ramoss writes:
I only think about wheelchairs when I see a wheelchair ramp, not when I climb the stairs. It's a privilege to be able to walk.
If you can do something without having to think about it, or worry about consequences, while other people DO have to worry about consequences, due to their race/religion/age/gender, then it's a privilege.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Jon writes:
What the hell are "bimboisms"?
You care so little about the welfare of African Americans that you cannot give up your bimboisms....
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