Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 181 of 424 (767402)
08-28-2015 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Faith
08-28-2015 8:05 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Some people say how exciting it is to be alive as prophecy unfolds before our eyes. I used to think that would be the case. I don't any more. It's nothing but grief, sadness.
So, just to check. When you thought the End Times were going to involve death, famine, pestilence, war, locusts with human faces stinging people, the reign of the Antichrist, and so forth, you were actually looking forward to that ... but instead you find that the future holds such terrors as people you'll never meet contracting a marriage which is none of your business, and now you're horrified. That's just nasty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Faith, posted 08-28-2015 8:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Coyote, posted 08-28-2015 11:41 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:07 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 192 by Greatest I am, posted 08-29-2015 9:08 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 182 of 424 (767404)
08-28-2015 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Dr Adequate
08-28-2015 11:26 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
So, just to check. When you thought the End Times were going to involve death, famine, pestilence, war, locusts with human faces stinging people, the reign of the Antichrist, and so forth, you were actually looking forward to that ... but instead you find that the future holds such terrors as people you'll never meet contracting a marriage which is none of your business, and now you're horrified. That's just nasty.
Ooooooh, that's gonna leave a mark!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-28-2015 11:26 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 183 of 424 (767406)
08-29-2015 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Greatest I am
08-28-2015 2:22 PM


Origin Of Evil
Who brought Satan and thus sin to the world?
God never created an evil Satan. God allowed the possibility of evil...Lucifer chose to actualize it and thus made himself satan.
This whole idea that humans are the only god there ever is....is itself evil...though it doesn't seem to be that way. All I can say is beware.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Greatest I am, posted 08-28-2015 2:22 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2015 2:43 AM Phat has replied
 Message 193 by Greatest I am, posted 08-29-2015 9:20 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 184 of 424 (767407)
08-29-2015 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
08-29-2015 1:57 AM


Re: Origin Of Evil
Phat writes:
God never created an evil Satan. God allowed the possibility of evil...Lucifer chose to actualize it and thus made himself satan.
There's some daft things that religious people say but this is one of the daftest. The entire concept of angels is pure fantasy, but that apart, we're supposed to believe that heaven is the most perfect form of existence imaginable - transcendental - yet somehow it's been polluted by these flawed human concepts of power ambition and greed. How is that supposed to work?
Don't you think that the most obvious explanation for this is simply anthropomorphism?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 08-29-2015 1:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 08-29-2015 3:05 AM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 185 of 424 (767408)
08-29-2015 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Tangle
08-29-2015 2:43 AM


Re: Origin Of Evil
Don't you think that the most obvious explanation for this is simply anthropomorphism?
You certainly have a plausible point. This doesn't explain away the concept of a Creator of all seen and unseen, however.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2015 2:43 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2015 3:36 AM Phat has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 186 of 424 (767409)
08-29-2015 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Phat
08-29-2015 3:05 AM


Re: Origin Of Evil
Phat writes:
You certainly have a plausible point.
But like all other plausible points, it too can be swept aside without further thought by the fervent.
This doesn't explain away the concept of a Creator of all seen and unseen, however.
It does, because that too is anthropomorphism, but even if it didn't, it leaves the first question still firmly unanswered. Why does heaven contain evil?
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 08-29-2015 3:05 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 08-29-2015 10:03 AM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 187 of 424 (767411)
08-29-2015 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Dr Adequate
08-28-2015 11:26 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
I think the problem was that we get gaga over the fact of fulfilled prophecy and aren't really thinking of the reality. We count the number of earthquakes and go "Wow, that many earthquakes fulfills what Jesus said would happen. That proves the Bible is true" But earthquakes that devastate towns and kill hundreds or thousands we aren't thinking of. "Lots of pestilences" seem to be increasing. But the reality of Ebola for instance is terrifying. "Lots of wars and rumors of wars going on" and that's another fulfillment. "Israel is surrounded by enemies that want her dead." Wow another fulfillment. But nobody can really WANT war to break out when you realize what war is.
Jesus also said the end times will be marked by false preachers and prophets. There's no doubt that has been happening for over a century now and now we're so surrounded by false Christs and false teachings, right here at EvC, there's hardly any way to get the truth in edgewise. That's horribly sad. He also said, "Because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall grow cold." How sad THAT is in reality. The hatred people here show toward the Christian faith is terrifically sad.
I don't get anywhere near the heavy stuff of Revelation you list before I'm overcome with grief.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-28-2015 11:26 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-29-2015 1:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 188 of 424 (767412)
08-29-2015 5:13 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Taq
08-28-2015 6:40 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
They said the same thing of segregation.
If you can prevent yourself from discriminating against hindus, why can't you do the same for homosexuals? It would seem that hindus are sinning way more than the homosexuals since they are breaking one of the Ten Commandments . . . the first one if I may say so.
How can it be so hard to get what I'm saying? This is not about other people's sins. This is about Christians being required by the law to act in a way that violates God's commandments to US. What the homosexuals are doing is not the problem, it's what WE are asked to do by this law that is the problem. WE are being asked to treat gay marriage as valid. That violates God's law. We are not being asked to validate Hinduism.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Taq, posted 08-28-2015 6:40 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by PaulK, posted 08-29-2015 5:21 AM Faith has replied
 Message 199 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-29-2015 1:09 PM Faith has replied
 Message 281 by Taq, posted 08-31-2015 4:03 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 189 of 424 (767414)
08-29-2015 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-29-2015 5:13 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
You are being asked to accept gay marriage as valid I'm exactly the same sense as you are asked to accept Hinduism as a valid religion. If you discriminate against Hindus because they follow Hinduism you are engaging in religious discrimination. You cannot deny it by arguing that Hinduism is not really a religion and expect to prevail in court. The only "validity" that matters is validity in the eyes of the law.
It is exactly the same with gay marriage. Gay marriages are legally valid, and must be accepted as such. Just as Hinduism is legally a religion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:13 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:34 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 190 of 424 (767416)
08-29-2015 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by PaulK
08-29-2015 5:21 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
I see no way I'm asked to validate Hinduism. The comparison is bogus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by PaulK, posted 08-29-2015 5:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by PaulK, posted 08-29-2015 6:37 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 191 of 424 (767418)
08-29-2015 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
08-29-2015 5:34 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
No, the comparison is exact. You are being asked to accept that Hinduism is a real religion for the purposes of the law and therefore entitled to all the protections that the law offers to religious belief. Equally you are required to accept the gay marriages are considered marriages for legal purposes, and that married gay couples are entitled to all the legal benefits of that state. That is the whole point of the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 192 of 424 (767426)
08-29-2015 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Dr Adequate
08-28-2015 11:26 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Dr Adequate
Faith and others who believes in a supernatural creator who creates gays just to be hated and finds gay people icky aren't exactly the deepest thinker.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Dr Adequate, posted 08-28-2015 11:26 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 193 of 424 (767427)
08-29-2015 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
08-29-2015 1:57 AM


Re: Origin Of Evil
Phat
You cannot help but sin.
It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.
1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
This indicates that Jesus had no choice.
If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?
God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.
This then begs the question.
What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?
Only an insane God. That’s who.
The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.
One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.
-----------------
"This whole idea that humans are the only god there ever is....is itself evil...though it doesn't seem to be that way. All I can say is beware."
Phat.
Tsk tsk. Using fear as a weapon is so Christian. Are you still beating your kids with unfounded fear?
Why is man being his own ideal and God evil?
Is it evil that the ideal and God of an ant is an ant?
Is it evil that the ideal and God of a lion is a lion?
Why should man, another animal, be the only animal who seeks a guy in the sky God instead of one of his own?
"it doesn't seem to be that way."
Really. What do you see that is God made and not nature made?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Phat, posted 08-29-2015 1:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 194 of 424 (767428)
08-29-2015 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Tangle
08-29-2015 3:36 AM


Re: Origin Of Evil
Why does heaven contain evil?
There is no evil in heaven. A war was fought and evil got thrown out.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2015 3:36 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Omnivorous, posted 08-29-2015 10:21 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 196 by Tangle, posted 08-29-2015 11:40 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 198 by ringo, posted 08-29-2015 12:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 204 by Greatest I am, posted 08-29-2015 1:27 PM Phat has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 195 of 424 (767430)
08-29-2015 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by Phat
08-29-2015 10:03 AM


Re: Origin Of Evil
Phat writes:
There is no evil in heaven. A war was fought and evil got thrown out.
Leaving only the "possibility of evil" permitted by God, as you put it earlier.
So evil could be emergent in Heaven now, or brewing on the back burner for later.
We've still got plenty evil here. Given the opening God made for evil in Heaven, why would you think none is possible there?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Phat, posted 08-29-2015 10:03 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024