Message of the Bible

I need a little more time to respond to this post of yours - in advance - thanks.

Without getting into the specifics of what you actually wrote, I want to respond TO WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING AND WHY YOU ARE SAYING IT.We have basically gone back in forth with each other while saying the same exact thing a little differently each time.Every logical concern that you have raised I have answered - the only problem is that you cannot even comprehend that the answers I supplied to be even remotely correct.Why is this ?You only see innocent people minding their own business getting killed by God. This is a common surface reaction that people with an ax to grind against the Bible make.You need to realize when attempting to understand the Bible that IT IS CLAIMED to be His word, that He commisioned, chose, and enable certain people to write down what He wanted known. The average person who haphazzardly picks up a Bible, opens it and reads "....and God commanded the children of Israel to destroy every living thing ...."
Then immediately they CANNOT accept or believe that God would order such a horible thing which makes them subjectively and erroneously conclude that God didn't say such a thing but some person changed it or made it up or what have you.Then there are people kind of like you who read such things in the Bible and have the opposite reaction."God is a sadist, a murderer, a this or a that."What we have here are two camps of people making two distinct reactions to things they read in the Bible.On one hand we have people refusing to believe the Bible is the word of God based upon horror, and the other hand we have people rejecting the God of the Bible based upon actions of Him that are percieved to be unjust.The point is that both camps of people are refusing to recognize the first and all important context from which everything that is recorded in the Bible is derived, which is that the Old and New Testaments CLAIM TO BE HIS ETERNAL WORD.Whether this is true or not IS IRRELEVANT to the point of this topic and discussion. What the point really is that I am trying to get across is that we have these two camps of people subjectively rejecting/refusing to get past things that they read in the Bible, things that on the surface so disturb them that they close their mind to what the Author is saying. The Author (God) has a message, He intentionally and deliberately and willfully and purposefully with eons of pre-meditated thought decided that what is written in the Bible IS WHAT HE WANTED TO BE KNOWN.We have one camp of people who straight out reject what is written in the Bible to be from God because they have subjectively determined that God would never say or do or be for or against certain things.
Therefore, the Bible could not be God's word.(much less eternal)Example: I remember reading some essay by some scientist who was arguing some scientific theory of his when he got on this sidebar thought pertaining to the Garden of Eden. Without any credentials in theology, and without hesitation this scientist (brilliant in his own discipline) subjectively proclaimed that the Bible could not be the word of God BECAUSE the Bible says God commanded Adam/Eve not to touch the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil - that God would want man to have knowledge therefore the creation account cannot be God's word.This scientist subjectively decided for this reason the Bible is not the words or mind of God.God didn't even remotely indicate (much less say) that He didn't want man not to have knowledge. God didn't want man to have knowledge of good and evil BECAUSE the only way to get this knowledge would be to disobey His direct order, and the reason He gave this order was to establish that He is the Boss - don't do it because I said so - period.The next reason He didn't want them to have knowledge of good and evil is because THERE IS NO POWER IN THAT KNOWLEDGE TO CHOOSE THE GOOD OVER THE EVIL WHILE SEPARATED FROM HIS HEART (Eden).To have the knowledge also meant separation from Him. God cast them out of the Garden for disobeying Him, now they are separated from Him with the knowledge AND THE ENTIRE REMAINDER OF THE RECORD OF HIS WORD IS MAN SINNING, CHOOSING EVIL OVER GOOD EVEN THOUGH THEY KNOW THE GOOD THERE IS NO POWER TO EMBRACE THE GOOD OVER THE EVIL WHILE SEPARATED FROM GOD.Nazi Germany is the best example of this eternal truth in our lifetime. The most educated nation on Earth committed the atrocity of the Holocaust.My ultimate point is this dumbshit scientist didn't even bother to think to get a qualified opinion from a theologian as to what THE MESSAGE WAS of why God didn't want them to have knowledge of good and evil.Only a talented "called" person of God can reveal what the message is.
The Bible interprets itself from other passages. This is the sole purpose of the Preacher - to explain what it means, what the message is.Now the other camp of people (where I place you) stands in harsh judgment of God with your separated from Him 21st century standards of right and wrong - good and evil. All you see is a sadistic God killing innocent people. You don't even care to know the context of the judgments you read or why they happened. You read in the Bible about this horrible event or that horrible event and you instantly judge God from your subjective perspective.You either forget or you do not care that the claim of scripture is that it is His eternal word, that He recorded all this horror and ratted on Himself.The proper attitude and stance to have concerning the things you read in the Bible is to find out what it means, WHY did God do what He did. There is a message that God is weaving through-out His book and this is the primary reason for the existence of the Book.I have laboriously argued in previous posts the context from which all the horror in the O.T. is derived but you refuse to acknowledge these truths.Nobody is innocent !Whoever gets killed in the Bible is because God decided that He was fed up with their rebellion/sin. Only a called preacher of God can take you into the specific text and explain it."Well I disagree ...God never should of ordered the death of everyone in the promise land ..."That's your subjective opinion. God decided that those people had thumbed their nose at Him long enough via their idol worship.IF God IS, then who is going to oppose Him ? Think about that.The message of the Bible is that God wants it known: Whatever He says good or bad will come to pass. This is the one common denominator woven through out the Bible.God wants that message known so that everyone understands that He is not fooling around.If the Bible records that God keeps His word to the hurt then the same is true in the good - that is what He wants known.He wants it known that He will keep His word even to His own hurt, which IS INTENDED TO EMPOWER MANKIND WITH CONFIDENCE TO ACT IN FAITH UPON A PROMISE THAT FITS YOUR CIRCUMSTANCE OF NEED AND IF YOU TRUST HIM HE WILL KEEP HIS WORD TO YOU AND BRING IT TO PASS.That in a nutshell is the message of the Bible which is the subject of this topic.Source of Theology Information : Dr.Gene Scott (Ph.D. Stanford University)

You are lucky I am even responding to this post of yours.I feel you are implacably angry.All you want to repeat over and over is your low-life insult of "bullshit". Whenever this word continually appears it should at least spell out what is b.s. and why it is.The only criteria for respecting anothers view/claims/opinion is that they must be able to communicate WHAT they believe and WHY they believe it.I have certainly communicated what/why and you have not.To brand something b.s. is to insinuate that they do not know what they are talking about OR that the communicator is with pre-meditated fore-thought deceiving their listeners.You obviously vehemently disagree with me - so be it.Your constant run-of-the-mill street insults never include any depth in explaining WHY you are saying it. I could easily do the same which would make this forum a futile chat room exchange.If you want to debate with me then you must stop the b.s. of accusing me of b.s. without the strong argument to back it up.If what I am saying is b.s. then surely it must be easy for you to refute and make me look silly with the truth contained in your knowledge. Name calling is a refuge for the defeated. As much as I want to call certain people liars in these debates in other topics, to do so is revealing to everyone that you are out of arguments. (BTW I do not believe you are a liar - we are just at opposite ends of the spectrum)Now, in your defense, you did say that Adam/Eve WERE innocent BEFORE they ate the forbidden fruit. I agree, this is not in dispute.They certainly did know what God said concerning that particular tree, IF anyone wants to say they didn't then this would be easy to refute.Theologians, deducing the truths represented in the Garden events have pointed out that the real first sin in the Bible is when Eve went near the Tree. She damn well knew that that Tree was THE Tree that God said not to touch. Why would you want to even get near it ?
Because Eve/we/I always want what we can't have. But God didn't slam her for getting near it, theologians make this point and I happen to agree with it.Adam/Eve had free reign in the Garden with ONE exception. They knew God commanded them not to touch it but they chose to use the free will that they had (to touch or not to touch) to indeed touch/eat it.Now, after disobeying God, they are not innocent - they are guilty.Now I have arrived at my entire point : What you and Yaro and others, (for whatever reason) fail to understand is the SERIOUSNESS of sin/disobeying God.The inability to grasp the seriousness of sin is in itself an effect of sin. All of mankind deludes itself into concluding sin is really not sin after all.The Garden of Eden and the truths we learn from it are negated to anyone who doesn't recognize the gravity of sin and its consequences.As far as why God allowed them to be tempted by serpent/Satan, that is another subject - but He did.Look forward to your response.

You raise many issues, and your points are very pointy. I understand what you are saying very clearly but I do not agree.I want to first remind/make it clear that this exchange between you and I is being debated under the assumption that the Bible contains/is the Word of God.I am also assuming that the purpose of your arguments is to highlight what you perceive to be unjust contradictions by God. Now you can also be presenting your arguments to support a claim that the Bible does not contain/is God's Word but this argument should include a statement to that end and/or a source of objectivity that reveals what God's word should be like in place of the claim of the Bible.I declare that this present world is so far removed from the objective mind of God (as revealed in the Bible ) that debates like this support my assertion.Objective truth Number 1 : Righteousness IS whatever God does or says.IF God IS God THEN by definition whatever He does/says is righteous.I strongly urge you to think about Objective truth Number 1.Who can oppose Him IF He IS ?The only problem is that mankind wants to sit in judgement of God by using their subjective standard of HOW God must be."...well any moral fool can plainly see some of the stuff going on in the Bible is despicable !"Remember, the CLAIM is that it is His eternal word. A record that He authored and strickly controlled its content.How must God be ? Tell me Stormdancer ? Do you have an objective source ? What is the source of your belief of how God must be ?God allowed Adam/Eve to be tempted into disobeying Him by the serpent.
This is not in dispute. He did so because WE are all on trial until the day we die."...well I don't believe that..."Not believing that doesn't exempt you from being on trial - it just indicates that you are flunking.The serpent didn't deceive Adam/Eve - "where is the deception by the serpent...where is the trickery in what the serpent did...." says Dr.Scott. The point being THEY chose to do what they damn well knew was against what God had ordered. Adam/Eve just plain sinned, they did what they knew was wrong. They made excuses. Adam blamed Eve and he blamed God inadvertedly "it was the woman YOU gave me..." Eve blamed the serpent. Dr. Scott is right, where is the deception ?
Eve chose to sin - period.Nothing has changed in thousands of years. YOU Stormdancer are blaming God.God allowed the events in the Garden and if you want to debate why He allowed the entire scenario then write a post.The Bible says what it means and means what it says unless it is clearly speaking through an allegory ,or parable, or symbolic typology.When you oppose God He might get sufficently angry at you and send a deceiving spirit to make you believe something that isn't true. God included that in His book to tell everyone the way He operates.
This means what it says. He gets angry with people who mis-use their freedom which is the essence of sin.He wanted those people to believe that the false prophets were indeed speaking for Him so they would go to battle and get killed. There is no way around that - it means what it says.The people that God wanted dead were long engaged in idol worship and He decided that their time was up. At least God is honest and tells you some of His methods He uses to punish rebellion.You don't like it ?Refer back to Objective truth number 1. Who is going to put God in His place IF HE is ?Everything in the Bible must be understood in context. Text without context is error.You must understand that God didn't have to record what is recorded in the Bible. The point is that He did, He "told" on Himself....WHY ?"...well the Bible must not be His word..."Negative, I already declared my position at the start of this post and you are at least assuming it.The reason why God told on Himself is because He has ONE central message that is consistently woven through-out : Good or bad He will do what He says - period. That central truth is intended to give a person the basis to have faith that God will keep his word to them in things pertaining to His Son.IF you truly fear God, then you want to please Him, if you truly want to please God, then the Bible is clear : ONLY faith pleases God. (Hebrews 11:6).Don't believe that ?Then maybe one of those deceiving spirits is working on you.IF you have urge for God (no matter how strong or small) then He is still interested in you. Obey Hebrews 11:6 and get with God's program.Yeah there are a lot of preachers, but God gives us the choice in picking which one truly speaks for Him, but this is another subject.If I still owe you a response to the rest of your material then let me know and I will reply.As to your comments about those innocent children : I wrote an extensive thread on this precise event. Please scroll back and read it then we can debate if you want in that subject.Thank You.

I owe you a couple of responses, I need a couple of days. Yaro thank you for your time and effort into this topic. I hope my next response you will find satisfying the many points in your previous posts.

Let me quickly repeat, the Bible claims to be the Eternal Word of God.
I use the word "claim" because I believe I am generally debating with people who do not believe the claim.I ask the claim to be assumed, that what is written in the Bible to be what God wants known. Now, if anyone wants to debate the claim, then fine. Make your argument. I have in previous posts stated why I believe the Bible to be the word of God.In christian debate arenas this issue is always assumed. I really do not want to debate this issue here because the title of this topic reveals the debate parameters to be "the message" of the Bible.As to your comments about the Garden of Eden being folk-lore ? Please scroll back a little ways and read my response to the arguments of EvC member Stormdancer. I have already addressed this issue in the context of reply to Stormdancer which I believe you have somehow overlooked.Now, the heart of the issue.God is omnipotent. God is omniscient.These are logical assumptions ascribed to God.However, the Bible, which is my source of information about God clearly portrays God's omniscience to have ONE exception.Yes, you read correctly. There is one exception to God's omniscience."...then He aint omniscient..."Yes, He is, there is just ONE exception.Why did God set up the Garden of Eden and this test between Adam/Eve, the serpent/Satan and Himself ?Basic theology 101 :Originally, Satan was Lucifer the Highest Arch-Angel created by God. Lucifer lead worship of God in heaven, that was his primary function. However, over time, he became disatisfied with his position and organized a rebellion against God. Lucifer had free-will and he used it to rebel. God allowed this to go on for some unknown amount of time.Then, at one particular moment during musical worship of God in heaven, Lucifer believed the worship he lead to suddenly be directed at him instead of God "I will be like the Most High and ascend the mountain of God..."God, having withdrawn Himself from the situation, suddenly decided He had had enough. He cast Lucifer down out of heaven with the angels that directed the worship at him.Lucifer and his angels are now irrevocably judged. They are God-damned forever. In fact, God became so angry with this betrayal that He created a place called Hell and committed the mutineers to dwell there for all of eternity.But Lucifer, (now called Satan) vehemently protested this judgement. He begged God for another chance. God told him that there would be no more chances - that his judgement was final. God also told Satan that he would not even allow this subject to be brought up ever again and that their physical being would have to always exist in this fiery place of torment forever and ever.Then God cast them into this Hell for an unknown amount of time.After this unknown amount of time expired, God let Satan and some of his angels out of hell and made them an offer they couldn't refuse.God explained to them that He understood how/why they were angry at Him. He could of forgiven them but He declined. Anyway God recognized the fact of their anger towards Him. God went on to say that He would enable them a way, a method to get their revenge on Him for not forgiving them and for making them spend eternity in hell.God said He decided to fill the void left in heaven (one third followed Lucifer) by creating a new being made in His image called Adam-kind.If Satan could get Eve to eat of something that God forbid then God would award temporary ownwership of the Earth and its inhabitants to Satan. This would be a temporary parole from the judgement of hell AND it would be an opportunity to hurt God for His unjust punishment of not forgiving us and sending us to hell. Satan and his angels (demons) are convinced that God loves us and when they are successful in destroying us they exact revenge on God for His punishment of them.God set up the Garden test for these reasons. He aims to populate heaven with persons who trust what He says, unlike the devil and his angels who rebelled.The point is that we are on trial, we are free-will pawns in a war for the trust of mankind between God and Satan.Eve CHOSE to trust the serpent/Satan and eat the fruit that she knew was forbidden by God. Adam was a pussy whipped spineless excuse of a man who ate because Eve ate.There was no trickery by the serpent. Both of them ate because they chose to. Like Dr.Scott says "....show me any deception by the serpent.."When confronted by God, Adam blamed God for giving him the woman which made him eat. Eve blamed the serpent claiming that it somehow beguiled her. This is all nonsense. They chose to mis-use their freedom and eat of the tree.Only problem is WE have to pay for these sins of Adam/Eve. The Bible doesn't declare the fairness of it, we are born separated from God under the jurisdiction of Satan. That is a biblical declaration that God NEVER explains. It is this way because that is the way He wants it.God is looking for persons who have the freedom to do otherwise to trust Him via a promise in the Bible that fits their circumstance of need. Satan seeks to prevent God from getting this.Persons who trust God are guaranteed eternal life in heaven, they will fill the void created by the departure of Satan and his angels.Now, IF trust/faith is the issue (and it is) then just like in the Garden, God does not know for certain which way you/I will choose to go.He is prepared to respond if you trust Him and He is prepared to react if you/I don't. But He does not know for certain what you will do when faced with the option to trust what He says or not.This is WHY God "repented" over choosing Saul. After Saul revealed his true colors by living a life that did not trust God, he became rejected by God - given up on. God didn't know what Saul would do UNTIL he actually did it.Can God predict what a person will do ? OF COURSE. The issue is what a person will do IF they have the freedom to trust God or not.One of the greatest examples of the exception to God's omniscience is in Genesis 22.Abraham was at least 120 years old when God said to him in the 12th verse : "....NOW I KNOW that thy fearest God ..."Finally, after 120 years and Isaac bound for sacrifice with Abrahams arm stretched out with the knife ready to kill Isaac, God stops the drama and declares that He is NOW convinced that Abraham fears Him.If you fear God then you want to make Him happy and trust is what makes Him happy.Abraham passed his test, but that drama was a type a play so to speak of what God would do to His own Son on that exact spot. Only in God's case He would not spare His own hand and spare His Son who offered His life as the Second Adam to give God the means to fellowship and save sinning man from the hands of Satan.The only thing God does not know, is the one thing He cannot create (exception to His omnipotence) IF man will trust what He says or what the sepent/Satan says. God cannot create trust, it must be freely given.God has bound Himself to the wild card of our free-will. IF we fail Satan gets his irrevocable pain on God. IF we trust Him then we get to fill the void vacated by Satan in heaven.The purpose of the Bible is for man to discover that God can be trusted to do what He says - good or bad - what God says will happen.
This is intended for one ultimate and supreme reason:That, when Satan tempts us/I/we/you and tries to make us doubt that our sins are not forgiven, we can run to the promise of His word and claim His forgiveness, a forgiveness that was denied to Satan.That is the message contained in the Bible. Now you know.

Yaro, I would like to break in here and say that the reason my replies to your posts have kinda dried up is because you are insisting that God ordered rape.You know I disagree, God ordered the judgement of death and it is YOU who have deduced that rape must have incidentially happened.I feel there is nowhere for you and I to go in this issue. Ring-around-the-rosy is no fun.Why would God order rape ? It doesn't make sense. The text you cite can only be misconstrued into rape but it does not implicitly say rape or a synonym - IT IS YOUR interpretation that says rape.I have also laboriuosly argued why all the horror in the O.T. happens.
Until you somehow incorporate what I have said into your replies there is nowhere to go in our debate.

After reading this post of yours - I apologize.If you are attacking content (and you say that you are) then this is most certainly valid. I just didn't grasp the degree to which you disagree.I think I understand your contention.God gave Adam/Eve free will in the specific arena of the issue of the Tree of K.of G.and E. This is a fact that is not in dispute.They had the choice to eat from it (and disobey God) or not eat from it (and obey God).As long as they did not eat from it they were perfectly innocent before God - in a state of obedience.God gave them this free will because He values them to freely and willingly choose to do what He says. God could of made robots who are programmed to do what He says, but there is no value in that.Adam/Eve were on trial, a trial to see if they had the freedom to do otherwise what would they do.They chose to ignore the seriousness of what God said (death if you touch) and ate.You will never understand the Garden until you recognize the existence of sin (misuse of freedom) and its seriouness.Every human being is on trial until the day we die. If a person does believe this then this does not exempt you from being on trial - it just demonstrates that you are flunking.God aims to populate heaven with people who have recognized that they are lost in sin, and at the same time have reacted to His plan of salvation.Why is this so ?Because God said so, that the vacancy in heaven was created by beings who mis-used their free will to rebel against Him. And He will replace this void with mankind that recognizes the fact that they are the luckiest beings in the universe to be wanted by God. This attitude is the exact attitude that the fallen angels did not have and God is determined for this not to ever happen again.The Tree represents that God is the Boss, He has the right to dictate this right anyway He sees fit.IF He IS, then who is going to oppose Him ?

I have not danced - you just cannot for the life of you comprehend my answers.You only see astronomic injustice on a surface level. I say you must understand what happened from the CONTEXT it occurred in.Text without context is error.I have answered these pointy questions of yours in previous posts.The real problem here is your inability to grasp the seriousness of sin. God is the author of the Bible and you fail to see His point in all of this. The Bible was written to get His objective mind understood.These so called innocents you defend are idol worshipping sinners whom God is judging.And if you think He spared His own people these awful judgements then you are ignorant of scripture.Do you know the circumstances and context from which the the book of Habakkuk is written ?The prophet bitterly complains to God that His people are prospering while worshipping idols. God had said that if they worshipped idols He would destroy them.Habakkuk cannot comprehend how God could turn a blind eye to this evil and let them prosper in it.God tells the prophet that He sees what is happening and that He is in the process of responding, but in the mean time "the just will live by faith".God instigates the Chaldeans to rampage into Hebrew territories and take them into bondage. The Chaldeans are utterly ruthless barbarians without a speck of mercy. They proceed to humiliate the Hebrews by marching them off into bondage naked with fishing line hooked through their lips while all connected to each other.Habakkuk sees this and immediately tells God "but I didn't mean for you to do THIS to them..."What's the point ?God is God and He decides punishment according to His known word.We don't like the judgements that our sins cause.God wants it known that if you fuck with Him He will fuck you up in a way you couldn't possibly imagine.God wants it known that if you do what He says (live the life of faith) He will stop the sun for you, like He did for Joshua !!!God wants it known that His Son suffered the agony of a Roman crucifixion for all mankind to remove the penalty of sin that the integrity of His word required.God wants it known that He is not fooling around - He means what He says and says what He means.

You are not pestering me, but I do you feel you only want answers that conclude what you already have concluded.Your views of God and His judgements are defective because they refuse to recognize the truth, which is the lack of any understanding of the seriousness of sin.To you everyone is innocent minding their own business getting murdered by God for absolutely no reason at all.You refuse to even acknowledge a context that each individual event happens in.You are only interested in debaters concluding your initial biased proclamation that God is a murderer and a sadist. You never have said one additional thing adding to or taking away from your starting statement.You argue in a perfect circle : God is a murderer because that is what I read in the Bible, and anyone who says different is closing their eyes, because God is a murderer, and anyone who doesn't see it is blind, because God is a murderer.....etc.etc.Dr. Scott quoting Carlisle : "the greatest of all sins is to be conscience of no sins"The Bible clearly teaches that the penalty of sin is death. Sin is defined as falling short of the standard of perfection as revealed in God's law.Until this is understood as truth, you and others of your persuasion are deceived by your sins into believing that sin is not sin after all. This is the absolute worst effect of sin, its ingredient to make you believe something that isn't true.When I read the O.T. I see a God who, because of Christ, has been much more merciful to me than I deserve. I could of been judged like those sinners but God MAKES you see the value of His Son in that WE have not received like treatment. We receive mercy LITERALLY FOR CHRIST'S SAKE. This is the only reason people like you get away with your ridiculous criticism of God.

First, your omniscience question/point.How could God know what a person is going to do before they do it ?Because He reads their mind and its intent. He is God and He has that power.Then what about that exception I argued ?That exception is in the specific arena of, to trust God or not trust Him. In this exact context, God does not know what a person will do UNTIL they actually do it. God could predict, but that is irrelevant. If He were to pre-judge a person before they do what they actually do, then this person could truthfully say "but I didn't/did do it".
God has to wait until a person clearly "reveals their hand" before He can ascertain if they do or do not trust Him. This is true because mankind are not robots, we have free will. We have the freedom to make a choice. God wants us to freely choose to trust Him when we have the freedom to do otherwise. Until we make this choice, He does not know for certain either way. This is why we are on trial, the trial exists to test our faith.You question why anyone should fear God ?Why wouldn't anyone with a brain not fear God ?It is simply the smart thing to do.If you fear God, then you want to make Him happy, faith is what makes God happy. (Hebrews 11:6)" well I don't want to fear God..."It is your choice.Answer to question # 1 : You misunderstood, it is Satan who sees the punishment as unfair, not God.God UNDERSTANDS Satan's feeling, but He doesn't agree. Do you understand the difference ?Question # 2: The reason why God chose a book is because He fully realizes that any other method utilized would result in His message being lost. A book appeals to everyone who can read. This is why the first thing ever printed on a printing press was His book. Books contain information that an author wants to proclaim.Basic theology declares this circle : The Eternal Word/Logos (Jesus) became the Living Word (His birth/life) who became the Spoken Word (the gospel preached) who becomes the Indwelt Word (His Spirit in us) who then became the Written Word (the Old and New Testaments).The Bible is God's protected account of what He wants known. Built into the Written word is the claim that only a called person of God can reveal what it means. God intentionally tied Himself to the error prone ways of a man/woman as the method by which He will speak to each individual person. God speaks through the Preacher, and a lot of bad ones have made a lot of people throw the baby out with the bathwater.Next question : God intentionally does not create any intelligent being that does not have free will. If He wanted robots then He would of created robots that do not have the ability to do otherwise.Satan CHOSE to rebel when he could of not chose to rebel. God values FREEDOM just like we do. God wants free people to freely choose to trust/love Him.

God can neither be proven or disproven.Every philosopher on either side of the issue already knows this to be true.IF God could be proven, then this would negate the terms of God before He promises to prove Himself to anyone. These terms are for a person to demonstrate an act of faith upon a promise uttered in His word.God can be deduced from what is made that a Creator made it. Romans declares this. The inability of certain people to make this deduction is the subject I have exstensively argued in other topics.

What is your source of information for how God must/should be ?Who's standard of morality are you using to explain God away ?Is this standard a rigged litmus test ?

What other set of assumptions are you referring to ?The Bible teaches that if a person arbitrarily rules God out from being the Creator, then this makes violator eligible, it triggers God's response of punishment, which is He incapacitates your ability to ever want, know, or desire Him."...does this insinuate that God controls the ability for any given person to believe in Him ??? "Yes it does.Regardless of what anyone may think subjectively, God stringently controls desire for Him. Any desire for God, no matter how large or small originates from Him." well John 3:16 says whosoever wills may come "Dr. Scott says your "willer" won't will unless God allows it to.

I am preparing a response to your post/reply. Forthcoming - Thanks.