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Author | Topic: The Nonsense of Revelation 13 Economics | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That one is fine, right reply button. Thanks.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
"Has been demonstrated to be false. You do not have the proof."
That's is your opinion only Paulk .... Satan's coming "antichrist" will make Antiochus IV look like a country bumpkin One who gained position by fraud and default .... and he failed to put humpty dumpty [Alexander's holdings] back together again .... he could not and did conquer Egypt The little horn will [Daniel 11:40; 11:42] .... at the time of the end still pending No symbolism .... literal reality And unless you are willing to modify your demeanor in a discussion between us, I will no longer respond to you Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
"That one is fine, right reply button. Thanks"
I do not use any other button for replies, so there must be something else going on Let me know again when this does not work
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Unless you are claiming to have proof that you have held back it seems to be a clear fact.
Certainly you have offered no justification for your assertion that Daniel 11 suddenly switches from talking about Antiochus Epiphanes to talking about somebody else living thousands of years later. Why on earth should a "skeptic and a realist" believe that ?
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
Did you hear what I said to you Paulk?
.... and do you know what this means? Daniel11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: "because it is yet for a time appointed." Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
My questions seem to be adequately respectful under the circumstances. Can you answer them ? Even if you refuse I have shown sufficient evidence to cast serious doubt on your claim to have proof.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
Believe that I can, but will not for you unless you change your attitude
I intend to address all of the details of the prophetic scriptures as I see fit So you will have to look for them as I move forward .... your choice .... and actually you have shown nothing of the kind as you tell above The preteristic view of Bible prophecy attempts to push large portions of future unfulfilled prophecy into the past in order to protect preconceived organizational dogmas The methodology used is to switch from the literal to the metaphorical/allegorical interpretation when convenient The preteristic behavioral adventure is to systematically destroy the Lord's more sure word of prophecy .... not a good idea I do not recommend the practice Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Why should I believe that you can produce proof when you have already failed to do so?In a discussion you cannot expect points that appear to be self-evidently false to be unquestioningly accepted. If you are not ready to provide the support, then it is better to refrain from making the assertion. Also, I will point out that you have still not dealt with the evidence of Daniel 8 identifying the "little horn" as a Diadochi ruler. An omission that I find quite telling. And what is wrong with my attitude?
quote: Whereas you clearly attempt to push prophecy into the future to protect your dogmas.I don't consider that a better approach, nor one that should be needed if Biblical prophecy were genuinely easy to understand and 100% accurate. quote: A methodology I do not employ.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
Yes you do Paulk
[Daniel 8:10] Interpret Zechariah 14 for the forum Your response will reveal much about you
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Now you are just being silly. I interpret the vision given in Daniel 8 (verses 3-12) symbolically. I do not think that goat isliterally a goat, the horns are literally horns or that the little horn literally grows to enormous size and knocks stars down from the sky. I interpret the explanation of the vision (20-25) as conveying the meaning of the vision Any sensible person would do the same. There is no shifting between metaphorical/allegorical interpretation from convenience. The shift comes directly in the text.
quote: Quite frankly, to do a proper job of it would take more work than I have time for right now, so I must decline.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
Good for you Paulk .... to each his own
I interpret the literal ..... as literal And the symbolic is always defined within the immediate context, or in some other related scripture(s) .... literally Once one learns the relationship between the symbol and its definition .... it is a slam dunk The Lord is not a God of confusion
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Then why are you so confused about the identity of the "little horn"? Daniel 8 is really quite clear in identifying him as Greek, associating him with the Diadochi states, and even tells us that the prophecy takes place in the time of the Diadochi states. You would think that if the "little horn" was a modern Muslim leader we might at least see the rise of Islam alongside Alexander's empire, and an acknowledgement that the Diadochi states fell more than 2000 years earlier.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
For the forum:
Here is the break between the rule of Antiochus IV, the last king of the north [Daniel 11:21-25] ....... and the next king of the north [the little horn] at the time appointed [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 13:1-4] Not the same rulers, but living centuries apart with different profiles Do not let Paulk fool you He is preteristic in his thinking and meddles with interpretive attempts to relegate unfulfilled prophecy into the past This kind of thinking also does the same thing with the future time of Jacob's Israel's trouble [Jeremiah 30] and the coming Islamic Caliph's invasion and occupation of Israel [Daniel 11:41; Zechariah: 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-36; Revelation 11:2; 12:6-12:14] The preterist claims that all of the above taken together occurred at the Roman incursions in 70 AD Anyone reading the above scriptures can see that all of the events taken together simply have never taken place in the past And this is why Paulk refuses to interpret Zechariah 14 .... the entire passage is of future unfulfilled events .... these things cannot possibly be relegated to any historical setting So the preterist has to commit selective metaphorical/allegory in an attempt to destroy the prophet's future predictions And this behavior is the confusion of preterism .... drawing the line between passed fulfilled prophecy with that which is yet to come in the wrong place Even to the extent that the Lord has already returned by placing this event into the past .... in 70 AD Preterism on this scale is dangerously skewed and the hallmark of most of the membership of the professing church today Here is the Lord's warning to the same Revelation3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Any who have been deceived by the dogma of preterism living at the time of His next intervention to bring judgment are at great risk and these will be tossed into His unprecedented wrath upon the earth .... and the same will face the severe persecutions of Satan's beast and false prophet If any reading this post end up in the coming tribulation, know that your repentance and turning to the Lord will be required .... otherwise you will be rejected by Him and lost forever with no recourse [Revelation 20:11-15] Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
A very revealing response.
You will note that 'Straightshot" completely evades the issue of Daniel 8 Obviously he knows that I am telling the truth - and that is why he wants you to ignore me. Or rather to ignore the Bible. Which really says quite enough about him.
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Straightshot Member (Idle past 2836 days) Posts: 89 From: Mitchell SD USA Joined: |
Daniel 8 is what it is Paulk .... a revelation of the little horn of the time of the end still pending
Now .... you give your interpretation of Zechariah 14 If you do not do this, then we will see quite enough about you to begin with .... and if you do .... if you can .... this will tell the forum much about you and what you are up to So you see I am not telling the forum to ignore you .... this is your chance to be recognized Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given. Edited by Straightshot, : No reason given.
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