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Author Topic:   Is internet porn ruining our next generation? Is censorship the answer?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2231
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 61 of 144 (767855)
09-02-2015 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Greatest I am
09-02-2015 4:45 PM


Re: Free Porn
If we cannot trust our intelligence and instincts, who or what else can we trust.

I do not trust you.

I trust science and evidence. There are or have been only a couple people whose intelligence I trust and in every case they were scientists using science and evidence to support what they said.

I don't trust instincts, yours, or mine, or anyone's. Although there was a time when my friends and I all thought there was something malevolent and creepy about Domingo Pass, so we got out of there before the aliens could take us up to their mother ship. This was also near the setting for Frank Herbert's novel, Hellstrom's Hive so that could have been it.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Greatest I am, posted 09-02-2015 4:45 PM Greatest I am has not yet responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 144 (767856)
09-02-2015 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by ringo
09-02-2015 11:45 AM


Re: Free Porn
Exactly. Finding porn on the Internet is so easy you can do it by accident.

Anyone who thinks children are going to be kept from porn because 'most porn sites are not free' simply hasn't bothered investigating the issue in even the most cursory way.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by ringo, posted 09-02-2015 11:45 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-02-2015 7:13 PM Jon has not yet responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 144 (767857)
09-02-2015 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by AZPaul3
09-02-2015 2:11 PM


Re: Free Porn
Could end up like ... someone else.

I think you already did


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by AZPaul3, posted 09-02-2015 2:11 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2231
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 64 of 144 (767861)
09-02-2015 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Jon
09-02-2015 6:17 PM


Re: Free Porn
Anyone who thinks children are going to be kept from porn because 'most porn sites are not free' simply hasn't bothered investigating the issue in even the most cursory way.

You are correct. I was clearly mistaken about that.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Jon, posted 09-02-2015 6:17 PM Jon has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-02-2015 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

    
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2231
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 65 of 144 (767862)
09-02-2015 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Tanypteryx
09-02-2015 7:13 PM


Re: Free Porn
I think parents have the first responsibility to talk to the children they brought into the world about sex and relationships and how to live in the world the way it is right now.

I know there are a whole bunch of people who should never have procreated, who are too stupid, or ignorant, or warped, to be the ones to teach any children anything.

I think the schools should be a source of unbiased, accurate information about all the things children need to know about living in this world.

I think society has a function that includes organizing itself in a way that tasks that cannot be performed by separate individuals are taken care of by specialized agencies, answerable to all of society. We call this a government and have appointed parts of it to regulate our society and its creations for the good of all. Sometimes we get it wrong and sometimes we get it right. Ideally we would learn when we do it wrong and try and improve.

The internet is global and connects our species in ways that were never possible before. It is a tool of communication and learning and can raise our collective knowledge to ever higher levels. It can also be used to hurt people in new ways and exploit our worst traits.

I choose to hope it will be used for more good things than bad things and to do what I think will make the internet a good invention and tool for humanity.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-02-2015 7:13 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Jon, posted 09-02-2015 9:10 PM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 76 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2015 10:29 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19871
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 66 of 144 (767866)
09-02-2015 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
09-01-2015 1:25 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
... Watching football is an incomplete experience ...

For a better analogy compare it to WWF and the choreographed "wrestling" programmed entertainment. The posing etc etc etc.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 09-01-2015 1:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 09-03-2015 12:04 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19871
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 67 of 144 (767867)
09-02-2015 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Tanypteryx
09-01-2015 4:38 PM


Re: Free Porn
xnxx*dot*com is a "gateway site" to free porn, with a smorgasbord sampling on the home page and a sidebar menu down the left side for you to pick your particular preferences.

The things you learn from your children ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-01-2015 4:38 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Coyote, posted 09-02-2015 8:46 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 271 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 68 of 144 (767868)
09-02-2015 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by RAZD
09-02-2015 8:40 PM


From your children...
The things you learn from your children ...

Contrary to the theory of evolution, there are things you can inherit from your children.

Like insanity!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by RAZD, posted 09-02-2015 8:40 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19871
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 69 of 144 (767869)
09-02-2015 8:54 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Greatest I am
09-01-2015 9:35 AM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
P.S. I saw a thing on the news last night showing parents protesting because the wants to increase sex education in schools. Parents are not qualified and most are not interested in doing so so.

We here in the USofA suffer a great deal from the Puritanical forefathers and their obsessive repression of human nature (not that other religions don't contribute as well, but they are the icon sect imho) ...

There is more nudity on European TV and more sexual violence in the US -- is there a correlation?

Censoring or repressing sexuality and making sex a **taboo** subject only increases curiosity and pretty well guarantees that sexual behavior will be perverted rather than natural. One only has to look at Victorian porn (yes it has been around for centuries, long before photography) to see where repression leads.

Compare that to aboriginal tribes that see and experience nakedness and normal sexual behavior as natural aspects of life.

Or are you going to pretend to tell me that they have trouble getting erections?

Could there be a correlation with lower rates of rape and sexual abuse with a more open approach to natural behavior and nudity?

This is what I mean by a more complete sex education program, one that does away with the veil of puritanical taboo prurience to show what real natural behavior is experienced.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : ?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 09-01-2015 9:35 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Jon, posted 09-02-2015 10:05 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 77 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2015 10:36 AM RAZD has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 70 of 144 (767871)
09-02-2015 9:10 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Tanypteryx
09-02-2015 7:14 PM


Re: Free Porn
I think parents have the first responsibility to talk to the children they brought into the world about sex and relationships and how to live in the world the way it is right now.

Hey! Now we're getting somewhere.

I agree with the above; however sometimes parents refuse to take that responsibility, and since society has an interest in the matter (for example, not wanting a population overrun with STDs, unwanted children, etc.) sometimes the public needs to step in to pick up the slack of obstinate parents, much like some states are now doing regarding vaccination (making it harder for parents to refuse vaccinating their kids).

I think the schools should be a source of unbiased, accurate information about all the things children need to know about living in this world.

To set a limit of "all the things children need to know about living in this world" is to not set any limit at all.

The internet is global and connects our species in ways that were never possible before. It is a tool of communication and learning and can raise our collective knowledge to ever higher levels. It can also be used to hurt people in new ways and exploit our worst traits.

We are all limited by how much time we have in our lives. The Internet doesn't add so much as replace older ways.

I like to think that our aspirations and concerns about the Internet are little different than those expressed by folks in the past dealing with technologies new to their eras, and, as it always has, history will likely show all of our impressions premature and inaccurate.

I choose to hope it will be used for more good things than bad things and to do what I think will make the internet a good invention and tool for humanity.

In line with what I said above, my bigger concerns with things like Internet porn is related more to what it is replacing. What do children who don't watch Internet porn do more of than those who do watch it? What effect does this have on their development and their behavior as adults?


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-02-2015 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-02-2015 10:03 PM Jon has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2231
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 71 of 144 (767872)
09-02-2015 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Jon
09-02-2015 9:10 PM


Re: Free Porn
To set a limit of "all the things children need to know about living in this world" is to not set any limit at all.

That was the point I was trying to make. I don't think there should be a limit on the knowledge we try and cram in their heads while we are bigger than them and in control.

In line with what I said above, my bigger concerns with things like Internet porn is related more to what it is replacing. What do children who don't watch Internet porn do more of than those who do watch it? What effect does this have on their development and their behavior as adults?

I don't know the answers to your questions. Maybe we will not know for a generation.

One thing I do know is that looking at all our nieces and nephews and all their friends that we know about, not one of them should be having and raising kids. They don't have any knowledge about parenting because their parents were awful and the schools completely failed them.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Jon, posted 09-02-2015 9:10 PM Jon has not yet responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 144 (767873)
09-02-2015 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by RAZD
09-02-2015 8:54 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
Compare that to aboriginal tribes that see and experience nakedness and normal sexual behavior as natural aspects of life.

You can't really compare some behaviors of modern first-world societies to those of 'aboriginal tribes' without addressing the obvious question of whether some of those behavioral differences are responsible for the different levels of economic achievement between the two.

There are minor variances between the attitudes of different wealthy countries, but they are more similar than different. In none of them is there the kind of 'sexual freedom' seen in 'aboriginal tribes'. I think that needs to be addressed.

Could there be a correlation with lower rates of rape and sexual abuse with a more open approach to natural behavior and nudity?

That depends on how you define things. Ripping the clothes off a strange woman is what we'd consider 'sexual abuse'; in some cultures the woman wouldn't have clothes to begin with. Same with rape.

This is what I mean by a more complete sex education program, one that does away with the veil of puritanical taboo prurience to show what real natural behavior is experienced.

Where do you draw your lines? How close to 'aboriginal tribes' do you think is appropriate? And why are your lines more valid than those of the puritans?


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by RAZD, posted 09-02-2015 8:54 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 271 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(5)
Message 73 of 144 (767875)
09-02-2015 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Jon
09-02-2015 10:05 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
Where do you draw your lines? How close to 'aboriginal tribes' do you think is appropriate? And why are your lines more valid than those of the puritans?

Any society built on religiously-inspired fundamentalism and repression is FUBAR.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Jon, posted 09-02-2015 10:05 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Jon, posted 09-03-2015 1:03 AM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 74 of 144 (767883)
09-03-2015 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Coyote
09-02-2015 10:32 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
So "thou shalt not kill" has no place in society because it comes from a religion?

Or does it maybe make more sense to judge values on the basis of their content rather than on the source(s) from which they may or may not ultimately be derived?


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Coyote, posted 09-02-2015 10:32 PM Coyote has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 545 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 75 of 144 (767898)
09-03-2015 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by AZPaul3
09-02-2015 5:14 PM


AZPaul3

It was conclusive enough for the British government to be able to pass a law to cover it.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23401076

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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