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Author Topic:   Is internet porn ruining our next generation? Is censorship the answer?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 544 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 76 of 144 (767899)
09-03-2015 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Tanypteryx
09-02-2015 7:14 PM


Re: Free Porn
Tanypteryx

I agree on the education and most of what you put.

Education is key but I also recognize that it is children and young and foolish adults we are talking about and that some unknown number will fall.

If other addictive chemical. drug and societal addictions are any example, I place the number of failures to be at about 20 %.

I think that to be too high a price even if wrong and only 5% is a truer number and that is why I promote censorship or at least regulations as seen in England.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-23401076

Prevention is less costly than a cure.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-02-2015 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 544 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 77 of 144 (767902)
09-03-2015 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by RAZD
09-02-2015 8:54 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
RAZD

Good food for thought.

But for the reasons spoken of in my second link, the old porn cannot be compared to what we now have in the net.

That is addictive while the old ways were not and all the reasons and logic trails are given.

I do not advocate repressing the sexuality of our young. What I advocate is putting in place a system to safeguard and facilitate their being able to have a normal sexuality.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by RAZD, posted 09-02-2015 8:54 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by RAZD, posted 09-11-2015 3:47 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 78 of 144 (767909)
09-03-2015 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by RAZD
09-02-2015 8:37 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
RAZD writes:

For a better analogy compare it to WWF and the choreographed "wrestling" programmed entertainment. The posing etc etc etc.


I don't think there's much difference between WWE and football.

And of course not all pornography is choreographed or posed. There's plenty of candid nudist porn and paparazzi porn - not that I would know anything about them but I hear things.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by RAZD, posted 09-02-2015 8:37 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2015 1:44 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 79 of 144 (767911)
09-03-2015 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Jon
09-03-2015 1:03 AM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
Jon writes:

So "thou shalt not kill" has no place in society because it comes from a religion?


It doesn't come from a religion. It's one of the most basic principles of any society, human or otherwise. Religions have enough sense to borrow some of the most basic principles.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Jon, posted 09-03-2015 1:03 AM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Jon, posted 09-03-2015 1:55 PM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 544 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 80 of 144 (767920)
09-03-2015 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by ringo
09-03-2015 12:04 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
ringo

Get your ears off of what your neighbor is doing.

Just kidding girl.

"And of course not all pornography is choreographed or posed. There's plenty of candid nudist porn and paparazzi porn"

I do not think I agree with you on this unless the couple do not know that they are being filmed, because if they do not know about the camera, then chances are that they are fairly close and intimate and that would make lousy porn from what that clip in the O.P. says.

It would be considered by most watchers as quite mild and they would likely skip by it.

Anyone who knows that there is a camera running will play to it. There might not be a choreographer but the actors will do their own.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ringo, posted 09-03-2015 12:04 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 09-04-2015 12:00 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 144 (767922)
09-03-2015 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
09-03-2015 12:08 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
You're missing the point. (Deliberately as usual I would imagine.)

If a serial killer sleeping under his bookcase is awoken by a Bible falling from the top shelf and landing open at the Ten Commandments, his realization that he should stop murdering people is no less valid than anyone else's realization of the same just because his realization is religiously sourced.

When judging policies, potential or actual, it matters not from where the policies come but what the policies are.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 09-03-2015 12:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:46 PM Jon has acknowledged this reply
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 09-04-2015 12:09 PM Jon has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 82 of 144 (767935)
09-03-2015 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Greatest I am
09-03-2015 10:21 AM


It was conclusive enough for the British government to be able to pass a law to cover it.

Politicians playing emotion on a national stage? Is that your evidence?

Note also that the British debate never mentioned the science, mentioned a lot about child porn and even more about rape-culture porn.

That IS NOT what this thread is about. You do remember the OP you wrote, don't you, DL? Maybe you should go back and re-read it to remember what this thread is about. Does it mention, anywhere, about the dangers to a child in pornography? Does it mention, anywhere, about the trauma of rape-culture pornography? You do know that both of these are banned already in the USA?Does it mention, anywhere, about the the abuse of sex-trade workers?

Your basic premise, since you need reminding, is that teens are being ruined by seeing adult porn on the internet. I have shown you where the experts, the smart people who study this stuff as a discipline, are of the firm convinced opinion that they really do not know!

Again with the smoke and mirrors trying to hide the loss of your pet theme.

Child porn, rape-culture porn, abuse of sex workers belongs in another thread. There is real harm there.

Is internet porn ruining our next generation?

Again, the science is inconclusive on the effect of adult internet porn on young teens. We cannot say that it is harmful (and to what extend, major or mild) or that it isn't.

No smoke or mirrors necessary. No obfuscation required.

You asked the question and now you have your answer.

Is censorship the answer?

Answer to what? Is censorship the answer to a problem you can't show actually exists?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : better explanations, I hope


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2015 10:21 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Greatest I am, posted 09-04-2015 7:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 144 (767941)
09-03-2015 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Jon
09-03-2015 1:55 PM


You're missing the point. (Deliberately as usual I would imagine.)

He's twisting the point, into something that he can actually make an argument against

Your actual point stands:

RAZD's wild speculations that the correlation between aboriginal and puritanical nudity standards and levels of sexual abuse has a causal relationship has not been established.

Coyote's joke? assumed the point required that the nudity standard comes from what the society was built on, which is what you then challenged and Ringo responded to.

We await RAZD's support for his claims.

I'd like to look at some of that Victorian porn he mentioned we could.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Jon, posted 09-03-2015 1:55 PM Jon has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-03-2015 10:05 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 84 of 144 (767961)
09-03-2015 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by New Cat's Eye
09-03-2015 7:46 PM


I'd like to look at some of that Victorian porn he mentioned we could.

Participation at EvC is dropping like a stone.....everyone is checking out what the kids are looking at.

I remember when I was in the 7th grade I passed an old drug store every day on the way to school. There was magazine stand right out on the sidewalk with girly magazines. There would always be a crowd of boys around the stand until the druggist came out made us leave. He never came out right away. Bare breasts were as far as they went in those days. At least above the counter, I found out when I was older that there was much more pornographic material that was kept out of sight. It turned out that there was a quite robust pornography black market, before court rulings allowed the multi-billion dollar markets we see now.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy


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 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-03-2015 7:46 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Greatest I am, posted 09-04-2015 7:32 AM Tanypteryx has responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 544 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 85 of 144 (767986)
09-04-2015 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by AZPaul3
09-03-2015 7:04 PM


AZPaul3

I think I have shown that the problem exists.

Although you do not think it has and think it inconclusive, you should consider if we should ere on the side of overprotecting the young or ere on the side of ignoring that protection and ignoring all the personal testimonials that we can access that show harm exists.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by AZPaul3, posted 09-03-2015 7:04 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by AZPaul3, posted 09-04-2015 8:15 AM Greatest I am has not yet responded

    
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 544 days)
Posts: 1423
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 86 of 144 (767987)
09-04-2015 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Tanypteryx
09-03-2015 10:05 PM


Tanypteryx

There is nothing new under the sun except for our technology and perhaps our level of depravity.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-03-2015 10:05 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by NosyNed, posted 09-04-2015 8:07 AM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 91 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-04-2015 12:17 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8842
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(1)
Message 87 of 144 (767990)
09-04-2015 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Greatest I am
09-04-2015 7:32 AM


Under the sun
There is nothing new under the sun except for our technology. and perhaps our level of depravity.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Greatest I am, posted 09-04-2015 7:32 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Greatest I am, posted 09-11-2015 4:44 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4097
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 88 of 144 (767991)
09-04-2015 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Greatest I am
09-04-2015 7:30 AM


I think I have shown that the problem exists.

What you have shown is that you assume a problem exists and that it is "ruining" (whatever that is) an entire generation of young. Porn vs teen is not a new controversy. The issue has been studied for decades. You cannot have shown a problem exists because no one, after decades of study, can show a problem exists despite increased availability on the internet.

...ignoring all the personal testimonials that we can access that show harm exists.

One of the things science has taught us over these past few centuries is that personal testimonials are notoriously bad as evidence. No matter how many there are they can only point to a possibility of an issue, they are not evidence of an issue.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

... you should consider if we should ere on the side of overprotecting the young or ere on the side of ignoring that protection...

Once we establish what the facts on the ground are (and the facts in this case are: we don't know) then we can have this discussion on whether we should impose restrictions anyway. That becomes a political discussion and is a matter of opinion.

You and I will disagree on this part of the discussion.

I cannot agree to limiting First Amendment rights, imposing censorship on the entire population of a nation of such diverse cultures, without there being a compelling, nay, an overwhelming body of evidence that makes such a drastic curtailment of personal freedom justifiable and necessary.

I find that to err on the side of caution, as you would suggest in this case, is insufficient reason to warrant such a drastic step into censorship and the curtailment of personal freedom.

You will disagree and that's the way the world works. We will agree to disagree and can now go on to bigger and better things.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Greatest I am, posted 09-04-2015 7:30 AM Greatest I am has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 89 of 144 (768003)
09-04-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Greatest I am
09-03-2015 1:44 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
Greatest I am writes:

It would be considered by most watchers as quite mild and they would likely skip by it.


I think you're incorrectly characterizing all porn fans as slobbering perverts. "Most watchers" have their preferences and many preferences are what you would call "mild".

Greatest I am writes:

Anyone who knows that there is a camera running will play to it.


You seem to disagree with the people who insist that all women in porn are being coerced. I'd say that both extreme views are wrong. Some are coerced, some are shy but willing and some play to the camera.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Greatest I am, posted 09-03-2015 1:44 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Greatest I am, posted 09-11-2015 4:48 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 90 of 144 (768005)
09-04-2015 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Jon
09-03-2015 1:55 PM


Re: porn is an incomplete experience
Jon writes:

If a serial killer sleeping under his bookcase is awoken by a Bible falling from the top shelf and landing open at the Ten Commandments, his realization that he should stop murdering people is no less valid than anyone else's realization of the same just because his realization is religiously sourced.


Actually, you're missing the point. I said that "thou shalt not kill" is not religion-based. It's conscience-based and socialization-based.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Jon, posted 09-03-2015 1:55 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Jon, posted 09-04-2015 7:17 PM ringo has responded
 Message 93 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-05-2015 2:08 AM ringo has responded

  
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