Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 53 (9179 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: Anig
Post Volume: Total: 918,057 Year: 5,314/9,624 Month: 339/323 Week: 183/160 Day: 19/38 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   New Species of Homo Discovered: Homo naledi
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 16 of 85 (768292)
09-10-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Omnivorous
09-10-2015 12:43 PM


If you could apply your native skepticism to your own beliefs, you would have a remarkable mind.
But of course I did apply it to those beliefs, for years and years and years, before I was finally rightly persuaded to their truth. Funny how y'all think skepticism must be a permanent condition, never yielding to the knowledge of truth. Strange. But of course that article of faith in permanent skepticism is why you never do come to a knowledge of the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Omnivorous, posted 09-10-2015 12:43 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Omnivorous, posted 09-10-2015 4:02 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 8:53 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 17 of 85 (768293)
09-10-2015 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Dr Adequate
09-10-2015 11:57 AM


The actual facts about the bones don't matter to evolutionists either. We never see them, you know, the evidence is almost never given, certainly not when we're being introduced to a new "find." When we are shown the bones they are a pretty pathetic paltry collection of half a dozen fragments some dog must have chewed. But no, normally all we ever get is an artist's rendering designed to persuade the credulous.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 11:57 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:12 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 22 by Coyote, posted 09-10-2015 4:47 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 27 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 8:50 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 18 of 85 (768295)
09-10-2015 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:52 PM


Hey, they did show the bones this time. There they are at the link in the first post. Not enough skull there though, and the one hand isn't convincingly human, and the ribs are too skimpy for the general heft of the bones. Now I'm doubting it's one skeleton.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:52 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by DrJones*, posted 09-10-2015 3:17 PM Faith has replied
 Message 25 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 09-10-2015 6:24 PM Faith has replied
 Message 82 by Meddle, posted 09-11-2015 8:28 PM Faith has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2296
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 19 of 85 (768296)
09-10-2015 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
09-10-2015 3:12 PM


Now I'm doubting it's one skeleton.
If you actually read the article (a strange idea I'm sure) you'd see that they recovered bones from 15 individuals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:44 PM DrJones* has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 20 of 85 (768303)
09-10-2015 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by DrJones*
09-10-2015 3:17 PM


Ah, and assembled them into one. Pretty risky method there.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by DrJones*, posted 09-10-2015 3:17 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-10-2015 7:53 PM Faith has replied
 Message 46 by DrJones*, posted 09-11-2015 12:37 AM Faith has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


(2)
Message 21 of 85 (768306)
09-10-2015 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:46 PM


Faith writes:
If you could apply your native skepticism to your own beliefs, you would have a remarkable mind.
But of course I did apply it to those beliefs, for years and years and years, before I was finally rightly persuaded to their truth. Funny how y'all think skepticism must be a permanent condition, never yielding to the knowledge of truth. Strange. But of course that article of faith in permanent skepticism is why you never do come to a knowledge of the truth.
Didn't that circle make you dizzy?
Yes, you're right, I am permanently skeptical; you are, too, about some things.
Vigilant skepticism is hard to achieve and even harder to maintain--the human mind yearns to relax into belief to relieve the existential tension of not knowing. But once that's done, there is no path to any knowledge at all.
The notion of absolute TRVTH is dangerous. People kill and die for that kind of belief. My skepticism tells me that if you need to kill or die for your idea, you need a better idea. It is certainty that most endangers us, and doubt that gets us home.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:46 PM Faith has not replied

Coyote
Member (Idle past 2212 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 22 of 85 (768308)
09-10-2015 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:52 PM


Evidence again
The actual facts about the bones don't matter to evolutionists either.
That's not true. The exact details of the various bones are sometimes argued over for decades. Check out some issues of American Journal of Physical Anthropology. Here is a link to the table of contents of the current issue:
Just a moment...
I have seen and studied casts of many of the important and some of the not-to-important finds prior to about 1980, the period when I studied fossil man in graduate school. That was an important part of our training.
So, for you to claim that the actual facts about the bones don't matter--once again you are entirely wrong. (Don't you ever tire of being wrong?)
We never see them, you know, the evidence is almost never given, certainly not when we're being introduced to a new "find." When we are shown the bones they are a pretty pathetic paltry collection of half a dozen fragments some dog must have chewed.
You won't find those casts at Wal-Mart, as they are expensive to make because they have to be extremely accurate. There's no point in casts that aren't accurate.
Here's a link to one of the better sources:
pennfossilcasting.com - pennfossilcasting Resources and Information.
But you complain about not seeing the actual evidence? It is there if you seek it out. You don't really expect folks to bring it to your door, do you?
(Not that you would accept it they did...)

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:52 PM Faith has not replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9535
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 23 of 85 (768311)
09-10-2015 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
09-10-2015 11:04 AM


Faith writes:
The credulousness of atheists is breathtaking.
Atheists? How do work that one out. The balance of probabilities make that unlikely. My bet would be Christian.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 11:04 AM Faith has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3207 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 24 of 85 (768313)
09-10-2015 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
09-10-2015 11:30 AM


"Professor Faith" writes:
Not Artist renderings are untrustworthy. Beside which, as I said, if it's human it's human, but I don't trust whoever decides that anyway.
Yes, because you rather trust a handful of religious extremists with close to zero experience in the field than hundreds of thousands of scientists who have devoted their entire lives to scientific inquiry.
"Professor Faith" writes:
Not enough skull there though, and the one hand isn't convincingly human, and the ribs are too skimpy for the general heft of the bones. Now I'm doubting it's one skeleton.
And evidently, the below photo of the homo naledi find (one of the more intact skeletons) is "too skimpy" for you. You, Faith, who have zero credentials, knowledge, or experience to back up your baseless accusations.
Here are skeleton remains from Jamestown, a mere 400 years ago. Not much more intact than the homo naledi fossils, though much younger. The differences between the two, even to the average person are evident.
So stop speaking from ignorance, Faith. Stop drinking the religious extremist/fundamentalist kool-aid. You can believe in a supernatural being and still believe in evolution (I do). They are not mutually exclusive (many Jews, Catholics, and Protestants accept biological evolution as fact).
I have been away from this thread for several years, but your utter and deliberate ignorance and obfuscation is ridiculous and embarrasing. At least bring some type of intelligence argument to the table instead of the inane and idiotic banter you display here.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Sorry, it has been so long, I forgot how to post pictures correctly
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 11:30 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 10:03 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3207 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 25 of 85 (768315)
09-10-2015 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
09-10-2015 3:12 PM


Hey, they did show the bones this time.
Provide evidence of when paleontologists did not provide evidence of their finds.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 9:57 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4554
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 26 of 85 (768320)
09-10-2015 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
09-10-2015 3:44 PM


Professor Faith writes:
Ah, and assembled them into one. Pretty risky method there.
Not for people who know what they are doing.
Someone who could not identify a finger bone is not likely to make credible criticisms.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 3:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 9:58 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 390 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 27 of 85 (768324)
09-10-2015 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:52 PM


The actual facts about the bones don't matter to evolutionists either. We never see them, you know, the evidence is almost never given, certainly not when we're being introduced to a new "find." When we are shown the bones they are a pretty pathetic paltry collection of half a dozen fragments some dog must have chewed. But no, normally all we ever get is an artist's rendering designed to persuade the credulous.
What an interesting fantasy. You notice how completely it's contradicted by the facts?
Now, your turn. Show us a talking snake.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:52 PM Faith has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 390 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 28 of 85 (768325)
09-10-2015 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:46 PM


But of course I did apply it to those beliefs, for years and years and years ...
So there was once a time when you thought: "Because I've seen no evidence for a talking snake, it would be excessively credulous for me to believe in a talking snake". Well, that sounds jolly sensible. And then what happened --- you hit your head on something?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 9:55 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 29 of 85 (768333)
09-10-2015 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Adequate
09-10-2015 2:04 PM


Dr Adequate writes:
Or, if she could apply her native skepticism to her own beliefs, she would be remarkably crazy.
I chose "native skepticism" with care but perhaps too little explanation.
Faith's blanket denial of anything she finds disagreeable differs from the more critical turn of mind she admits she once had: the former, brain worms; the latter, her native skepticism.
You may be right. There may be no turning back without breakage.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 2:04 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1550 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 85 (768335)
09-10-2015 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Dr Adequate
09-10-2015 8:53 PM


Couldn't believe the gospel. It was the gospel itself, the claims of Jesus Christ, I had trouble with. Once you believe God is real all of it falls into place. Certainly no problem with talking snakes and talking donkeys once you know God is real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 8:53 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 09-10-2015 10:21 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 36 by Percy, posted 09-10-2015 10:38 PM Faith has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024