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Author Topic:   Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
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(1)
Message 53 of 424 (766819)
08-22-2015 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
08-22-2015 8:43 AM


Be honest Faith. There's more chance of 'Christians" hunting down gays than the other way around.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 8:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 9:17 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 55 of 424 (766823)
08-22-2015 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
08-22-2015 9:17 AM


We know that Christiams have supported anti-sodomy laws in the U.S. And complained about their repeal. And called for them to be restored We know that "Christians" express support for laws criminalising homosexual behaviour in Africa, and the repressive laws in Russia.
I really doubt that you have anything that compares.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 9:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 10:06 AM PaulK has replied
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 10:29 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 58 of 424 (766827)
08-22-2015 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
08-22-2015 10:06 AM


quote:
I was thinking of entrapment and vandalism.
Even when you wrote:
Now, if the authorities were inclined to, they could arrest a pastor for preaching from the parts of the Bible that affirm marriage as for one man and one woman and that homosexuality is a sin. For that matter, they could come knock on my door and inquire what my opinion of gay marriage is, and if I say it's a violation of God's law they could arrest me.
?
Which, by the way, is an outright falsehood, and I don't believe that you have any excuse for not knowing that it is false.
Of course I do think that outright criminalisation is more serious than isolated acts of vandalism and what you call "entrapment" (which, of course, "Christians" have attempted too. And even then the target is bigotry rather than Christianity.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

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 Message 56 by Faith, posted 08-22-2015 10:06 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 59 of 424 (766828)
08-22-2015 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
08-22-2015 10:29 AM


quote:
And again your argument itself shows the likelihood of persecution of Christians.
How so? The fact that "Christians" are the ones in favour of persecution hardly shows that they are likely to be the persecuted.

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PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 155 of 424 (767301)
08-28-2015 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by Faith
08-27-2015 3:39 PM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Odd how "religious freedom" is about government workers abusing their position, refusing to do their jobs and denying other people their legal rights. But only when a "Christian" does it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Faith, posted 08-27-2015 3:39 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-28-2015 3:01 AM PaulK has not replied
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 08-28-2015 4:22 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 160 of 424 (767314)
08-28-2015 4:48 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Faith
08-28-2015 4:22 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
Sure Faith. You should follow the example of the "godly" Puritans of Maryland. Revolt, repeal the First Amendment, burn down Catholic Churches - I guess you can include Mosques and any other religious establishments you disapprove of - and set up your own tyranny where only "Christians" are allowed to vote or hold office.
Or maybe you should try being a Christian.

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PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 189 of 424 (767414)
08-29-2015 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
08-29-2015 5:13 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
You are being asked to accept gay marriage as valid I'm exactly the same sense as you are asked to accept Hinduism as a valid religion. If you discriminate against Hindus because they follow Hinduism you are engaging in religious discrimination. You cannot deny it by arguing that Hinduism is not really a religion and expect to prevail in court. The only "validity" that matters is validity in the eyes of the law.
It is exactly the same with gay marriage. Gay marriages are legally valid, and must be accepted as such. Just as Hinduism is legally a religion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:13 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Faith, posted 08-29-2015 5:34 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 191 of 424 (767418)
08-29-2015 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
08-29-2015 5:34 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
No, the comparison is exact. You are being asked to accept that Hinduism is a real religion for the purposes of the law and therefore entitled to all the protections that the law offers to religious belief. Equally you are required to accept the gay marriages are considered marriages for legal purposes, and that married gay couples are entitled to all the legal benefits of that state. That is the whole point of the law.

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PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 320 of 424 (767786)
09-02-2015 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 314 by Faith
09-01-2015 2:13 PM


Re: SCOTUS declines to extend clerk's stay
quote:
Why isn't there some recognition of the fact that she had the job before the law came down? That's some kind of fraud or entrapment I would think, something that ought to be prosecuted in itself.
And this is WHY we cannot have people like you in positions of power. You will make up the most ridiculous lies to do whatever you want in defiance of justice, the law and simple morality.
And then you whine about being persecuted because it doesn't work.
Now we might more reasonably ask why there is no recognition that this is a purely secular matter. That she is not performing any religious function. That this is entirely about discriminating against homosexuals.
It's not about Christians being persecuted,mints about Christians wanting to persecute and whining because the government dares to disagree.

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 Message 314 by Faith, posted 09-01-2015 2:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 321 of 424 (767790)
09-02-2015 7:48 AM


Here's an interesting question
If Hindus wish to build a temple should a Christian use a government position to deny them ? Even if there is no reason for the denial other than that it is a Hindu temple ?
Obviously as a matter of law (at least in the U.S.) and from the principle of religious freedom the answer is no. bit surely Faith must feel differently. From her perspective to actively give permission to build the temple is to be complicit in demon-worship.
Of course the question of inter-racial marriage is also significant, but we already know that faith thinks that it's OK to "persecute" Christian segregationists....
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

  
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 327 of 424 (767827)
09-02-2015 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by Dr Adequate
09-02-2015 9:09 AM


quote:
Imagine if a government clerk who was a Quaker started refusing to issue gun licenses as a matter of conscience ... you'd soon see how much the religious right gives a damn about her "religious freedom" to not do her job.
Just more evidence of how Christians are persecuted. They can't have the Quakers whipped out if town, and even have to tolerate Quakers holding public office. Scandalous! The end of Western civilisation!

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PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 396 of 424 (768460)
09-12-2015 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by Faith
09-12-2015 1:45 AM


Re: Clerk refuses to issue marriage license to gays
quote:
If you rewrote the Ten Commandments to say Adultery is Permitted, Stealing is Permitted, Murder is Permitted, that's more like what is implied in this new law of Gay Marriage though it's still not quite a perfect definition.
Of course,no law is being rewritten. It is simply that the law of the land disagrees with the rules of your religion. In that sense it is no different than the example you omitted -"Worship of other gods is permitted". Which is also the law of the land and has been since the Bill of Rights was passed.
The real reason, of course, is that "Christians" wish to place themselves above the law, or the rules of employers. For many years they have gotten away with claiming privileges that the law does not permit. But this has been slowly changing and every loss is met by howls of outrage.
Gay marriage is a victory for liberty and justice over the hate and lies of the "Christian" right. Of course they hate it! They threw everything they could at trying to stop it and still they failed. Well tough. They can just accept that they are not entitled to special privileges. That they don't get to override laws they don't like. And if they can't stand that the too bad for them.

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 Message 395 by Faith, posted 09-12-2015 1:45 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 398 of 424 (768473)
09-12-2015 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by Dr Adequate
09-12-2015 3:41 AM


Re: Faith Still Trying To Square The Circle
It's funny how recognising "demonic" Hinduism as a valid religion, and it's adherents as entitled to accommodations respecting their religious beliefs is acceptable. Apparently Faith sees worshipping demons is the "good" sort of sin that deserves public acceptance and support, unlike gay sex.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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