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Author Topic:   New Species of Homo Discovered: Homo naledi
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 13 of 163 (768489)
09-10-2015 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
09-10-2015 11:30 AM


Faith writes:
Artist renderings are untrustworthy. Beside which, as I said, if it's human it's human, but I don't trust whoever decides that anyway.
If you could apply your native skepticism to your own beliefs, you would have a remarkable mind.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 11:30 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 2:04 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:46 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 21 of 163 (768497)
09-10-2015 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
09-10-2015 2:46 PM


Faith writes:
If you could apply your native skepticism to your own beliefs, you would have a remarkable mind.
But of course I did apply it to those beliefs, for years and years and years, before I was finally rightly persuaded to their truth. Funny how y'all think skepticism must be a permanent condition, never yielding to the knowledge of truth. Strange. But of course that article of faith in permanent skepticism is why you never do come to a knowledge of the truth.
Didn't that circle make you dizzy?
Yes, you're right, I am permanently skeptical; you are, too, about some things.
Vigilant skepticism is hard to achieve and even harder to maintain--the human mind yearns to relax into belief to relieve the existential tension of not knowing. But once that's done, there is no path to any knowledge at all.
The notion of absolute TRVTH is dangerous. People kill and die for that kind of belief. My skepticism tells me that if you need to kill or die for your idea, you need a better idea. It is certainty that most endangers us, and doubt that gets us home.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 16 by Faith, posted 09-10-2015 2:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 29 of 163 (768505)
09-10-2015 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Adequate
09-10-2015 2:04 PM


Dr Adequate writes:
Or, if she could apply her native skepticism to her own beliefs, she would be remarkably crazy.
I chose "native skepticism" with care but perhaps too little explanation.
Faith's blanket denial of anything she finds disagreeable differs from the more critical turn of mind she admits she once had: the former, brain worms; the latter, her native skepticism.
You may be right. There may be no turning back without breakage.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 14 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2015 2:04 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 67 of 163 (768543)
09-11-2015 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Faith
09-11-2015 1:15 AM


Re: incredible creationists
Faith in Msg 56 writes:
Before the Flood there would certainly have been all kinds of wildly different versions of every living thing including human beings.
Faith in Msg 60 writes:
After the Flood small populations would have been constantly splitting off from the larger groups and moving out geographically, which is the perfect condition for rapid phenotypic variation.
That should cover it, I guess.
So God created "wildly different versions" of human beings before the Flood, narrowed it down to a few individuals of one specific variation with the Flood, then post-Flood conditions created "rapid phenotypic variation" which had time to develop extensive phenotypic variations that would flourish, disappear and fossilize. All of this in 6000 years.
Am I with you so far?
Edited by Omnivorous, : clarity

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

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 Message 60 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 1:15 AM Faith has replied

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 Message 70 by Faith, posted 09-11-2015 11:48 AM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(3)
Message 133 of 163 (769222)
09-17-2015 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
09-17-2015 12:20 PM


Re: Getting ahead?
ringo writes:
It isn't our brains that make us distinct from the other apes. It's our feet.
With apologies to Sam & Dave:
quote:
I was brought up on a side street, yes mam
I learned how to love before I could eat
I was educated at woodstock
When I start loving, oh I can't stop
I'm a sole man...

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 148 of 163 (769353)
09-19-2015 8:53 PM


O brave new world that has such moments in it.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Faith, posted 09-19-2015 10:54 PM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(7)
Message 158 of 163 (769446)
09-20-2015 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by RAZD
09-20-2015 9:08 AM


Re: Getting ahead? (pt 3)
As you know, RAZD, a major obstacle to understanding evolution is the profound difficulty of apprehending deep (geologic) time. We are such transient creatures, and at our native temporal scale it is difficult to understand the enormity of deep time. Of course, for a young earth creationist, that understanding is blocked completely.
Your posts in this thread put me in mind of a similar block to understanding the nature of science itself: you could call it deep thought, for the enormous number of work/years spent quantifying and analyzing a find of this caliber; the scale must enlarge to encompass the years required just to educate and train the scientists involved, and inflate again to accommodate the millennia of training and work/years by generations of previous scientists. It has been a Herculean labor.
The effort and rigor demanded by such a volume of data amaze me, especially when directed at better understanding our origins for the sake of understanding, a search for self-understanding that in other contexts would be thought spiritual. Yet this dig is just one bead on a long string of projects stretching back centuries.
It is the grandest of adventures, bridging time and space to see just what we are. The time scale is merely human, but the project is gloriously human. Communicating that to an inattentive public is an essential challenge. I remember when there was a popular sense of involvement with this intellectual adventure. I hope we can see that again; spreading the word about the amazing effort, and the accessibility of the knowledge, may help.
Thanks for doing the yeoman's work in hauling all that data here and contributing explications and connections. I find it inspiring, and I'll be studying it for some time--which is what I've done today between other posts.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by RAZD, posted 09-20-2015 9:08 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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