Catholics are making it up.

Clearly you wish to redefine a word to mean the exact opposite of its actually meaning. Yes, things that have no reality escape me - and everyone else - altogether. I admit to the prejudice of requiring some form of evidence for something existing before I form my entire world outlook on it. And yet you haven't produced any witness evidence for this hell. I say it's another made up story, so prove me wrong (in another thread Preferably.)

I'd expect that sort of nonsense from a deluded creationist, not someone who is normally rational.The difference between a scientific theory dexcribed in a text book and a doctrine such as hell or a the abhorrence of gays in a religious credo is that anyone with a brain who is prepared to works hard enough will be able to confirm most of its 'truths' from first principles and physical evidence and then be able to repeat that proof so as to be independently confirmed by others.In contrast anybody with sufficient power or charisma can unilaterally declare the existence of hell, or limbo or purgatory or angels and devils or virgin birth or transubstantiation and the thousands of other fantasies of religion without evidence, but no one can demonstrate their existence or even the likelyhood of their existence. Anyone in power can also declare the abandonment of these fictions when they become embarassing - equally without evidence.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Do tell us more. Do you have any actual examples of stuff made up by these atheists or are you simply having a 'hate filled rant'.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Ok then, please explain which of the following Catholic doctrines listed in the OP have not been made up:1. Catholics may not divorce
2. Women who have had an abortion cannot be forgiven
3. Catholic priests must be celibate (always good for a laugh that one)
4. It's a sin to eat meat on a friday
5. Unbaptised babies can't get to heaven - they go to Limbo
6. The use of birth control is a mortal sinThis is not a definitive list, just a few dictrines that have been dumped recently.

It's not a side topic. The Catholic stuff was in the news, I used it as an example of how religions just make stuff up, then drop their beliefs when they're found out or they become an embarassment and a recruitment problem. They're just examples. I finished the post with this. You provided another list that NoNukes couldn't dispute, he's just trying to shut down the argument, presumably because he can't actually answer it. Do carry on.

You have a bad habit of straw man building then tilting at them; you do it in pretty much every post you make. If you addressed the arguments being made instead of creating the argument you'd prefer, you might make more progress.There's a lot of good things to say about religions and no-one could argue that it isn't an important part of our culture. But this thread is about how religions have made up their belief systems and are now dropping them because they no longer fit with our real knowledge of the world or because they just seem silly now. This leads to an obvious question of just how much has been made up?

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Thomaston, Georgia
May 22, 1934Pop Pius XI
Rome, ItalyDear Sir;
Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you
changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday:
Identical with the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the
change, and by what authority?Yours very truly,
J. L. Day
The Reply:
THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pop Pius XI)Dear sir:
Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the
Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:> (1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith
> and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath.
The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies
them in the eyes of every thinking man.(2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith.
Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church,
as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach
and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of
the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to the Sunday.
We frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she
made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried
priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic
marriages, and a thousand other laws."(3) We also say that of all Protestants, the Seventh-day Adventists are
the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their
teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches,
in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sunday of which there
is nothing in the Bible.With best wishes,
Peter R. Tramer, Editor

And of course, this just demonstrates the process and the human justifications for making stuff up - including those that claim to follow the letter of the bible.

Don't you find it just a little disconcerting that Christians can't even agree on something as simple and as seemingly factual as which day of the week is the Sabbath? Doesn't it make you think that if it's that easy to dissemble about such a straightforward issue that perhaps some things that are genuinely incomprehensible - such as the Trinity - might also just be made up?

Right, the trinity is easy to understand while a day of the week isn't.The mind of the believer is a truly wonderous thing.

Yes it certainly does. It clarifies the mental cartwheels you people have to perform in order to explain away a very simple difficulty with your current rules.It's pretty clear that the Catholic church changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday as a pure policy matter, presumably to make it different from Jewish practice.The protestant believers came along after and didn't bother changing it back to the biblically correct Saturday. Now they have to dissemble to justify it.

Q. What is the Third Commandment? ( Remember they renumbered! )
A. The third Commandment is: Remember thour keep holy the Sabbath day.
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
[ The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, 1951 printing, page 50. ]Q. How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants allow of; and therefore THEY FONDLY CONTRADICT THEMSELVES, BY KEEPING SUNDAY STRICTLY, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same church."[ Henry Tubervill, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, 1833, page 58. ]

Sure, the 20 minutes or so that I've devoted to this has so far only uncovered that it was changed by the pope and the answer given in the quote above resolved to 'because they could.' It seems to slip happily into the category of 'making stuff up at the moment.'What's even more interesting though is that those that actually believe this stuff and practice it don't know either - and that is appears to flatly contradict the biblical literalist's own practices.

Who knows whether a site calling itself Sabathtruths is reliable but according to this guy, it was simply a declaration.About 100 years before Christianity, Egyptian Mithraists introduced the festival of Sunday, dedicated to worshiping the sun, into the Roman Empire. Later, as Christianity grew, church leaders wished to increase the numbers of the church. In order to make the gospel more attractive to non-Christians, pagan customs were incorporated into the church’s ceremonies. The custom of Sunday worship was welcomed by Christians who desired to differentiate themselves from the Jews, whom they hated because of the Jews’ rejection of the Savior. The first day of the week began to be recognized as both a religious and civil holiday. By the end of the second century, Christians considered it sinful to work on Sunday.The Roman emperor Constantine, a former sun-worshiper, professed conversion to Christianity, though his subsequent actions suggest the conversion was more of a political move than a genuine heart change. Constantine named himself Bishop of the Catholic Church and enacted the first civil law regarding Sunday observance in A.D. 321.On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrate and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however, persons engaged in agricultural work may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits; because it often happens that another day is not so suitable for grain growing or for vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. Schaff’s History of the Christian Church, vol. III, chap. 75.Note that Constantine’s law did not even mention Sabbath but referred to the mandated rest day as a the venerable day of the sun. And how kind he was to allow people to observe it as it was convenient. Contrast this with God’s command to observe the Sabbath even during the plowing season and harvest (Exodus 34:21)! Perhaps the church leaders noticed this laxity as well, for just four years later, in A.D. 325, Pope Sylvester officially named Sunday the Lord’s Day, and in A.D. 338, Eusebius, the court bishop of Constantine, wrote, All things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath (the seventh day of the week) we (Constantine, Eusebius, and other bishops) have transferred to the Lord’s Day (the first day of the week) as more appropriately belonging to it.- See more at: Where's the Evidence That the Sabbath Was Changed? | Sabbath Truth