Message of the Bible

Adam and Eve at a metaphorical level had attained consciousness of themselves as individuals, and of each other.The story of our ancestors being thrown out of the garden by an insecure "storm God"
is the story of a Goddess-oriented society thrown into disequilibrium by successive episodes of drought that affected the carrying capacity and climate of the pastoralists' Saharan Eden.The retreat of the glaciers from the Eurasian landmass and the simultaneously acceleration of aridity in the African grass lands brought about the "casting out of Eden."The Tassili-n-Ajjer began to move.From the book, 'Food Of The Gods.'

What we have to remember is that the Old Testament was written by people who were only interested in explaining Israel's relationship with God, logic did not come into it. The 'Fall' was an explanation for why evil exists in the world, and the deuteronomy quote is an example of self-preservation.The 'Fall of man' is a myth, a folk tale for an ancient culture, it is good literature and very interesting but not to be taken as a real event.Brian, true, very true, but I have a sneaky suspicion that there is a grain of truth hidden in the myth.

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But if god is Omnipotent then he would have already known whether Adam and Eve would take the bait, so what is the point of testing them? Also if god made humans then it is his fault that Adam and Eve disobeyed him. If he wanted humans to do everything he wanted then why not create them that way?

Rand, apparently being supremely knowledgable and eternally singular makes for a pretty boring existence, and even a Harper Valley Ken and Barbie Playworld is a more amusing pasttime than an swirling void of primordal goo.

WTAgain you take the attacks on the reasons you give for God's actions as personal attacks on you. I attacked the point you made about in regards to people being killed by God.You have a problem with me saying bullshit to a point you made that has no evidence for its existence.[after all since when are you or anybody qualified to state whether someone is innocent or not.]But don't you dare get in a huff about being unfairly treated.I fully respect your right to an opinion.I also respect my right not to have to blindly accept it. I also have the right to express my opinion on points you make.I spelled out what what the bullshit was about.If a scientist makes an error in his logic or his evidence is on shaky ground it is IMO the duty of a person to point out the weakness. The same goes for theologians.You back up my point with this statement. This is free will that was given to them by God. He gave it to them and then punishes them for using it.These are the actions of a Father?This is why I used the point of a gun being given to a 2 year old with the safety off. It is a BULLSHIT statement that makes no sense upon thinking about it IMO.It is not that you are bullshit for making it ok?I must be off to work now. Have a good day.

Willow you say God is righteous because he is God, so no matter what god does it is ok because he knows best ....or something like that.Well, then if God is always right why did he have to repent to Moses and how did the prophets get the message wrong, the prophets being Gods mouth piece are the source of the Bible writings that say God said so.Right?Exodus 32:14 - And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people -God repents,SO IF GOD REPENTS THEN HE *******IS NOT "ALWAYS RIGHT"**********YES?32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?Moses has to advise God .32:12 Wherefore should the Egyptians speak, and say, For mischief did he bring them out, to slay them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth? Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.andThe bible is the inerrant words of God ?Now the Bible would not have the words of God in it if it were not for the men of God.YES?So these men of God are called prophets .....YES?So if the prophecies did not come to pass then the prophecies recorded in the Bible being FALSE cannot possible be the word of GOD?YES?The Bible itself states, a prophet's that prophecy does not come to pass shall be put to death.Create a Website | Tripod Web Hosting Failed PropheciesThe following was posted from the Eve's Apple mailing list.Some Bible prophecies that failed to occur

There is no point in testing them, it is a story, a folk tale, the point of the folk tale is to explain how evil entered the world, and everything else is immaterial. If you read the story as folk lore then you can see why it was written, the author wasn’t trying to cover all the bases, he only had one purpose and the story achieves that purpose.I know, and you know, that this story makes a mockery of God’s omniscience, but this wouldn’t have entered the mind of the author as it was not why he wrote it. The Israelites needed a reason to explain how God can say at the end of each creation day that everything was ‘good’ and that He was ‘pleased’ (which also negates omniscience) yet we all know that world contains a lot of evil. How can this be so if God was pleased with His creation? Well since God cannot be at fault it then has to be someone else’s fault, and the author shows us that it is our fault not God’s. The author achieved his purpose, the additional problems did not concern him. If there is a God then of course everything that happens is His fault, but you will not get a Bible believer to agree with you. They want their cake and they want to be able to eat it as well. But you may want to think about God perhaps being an evil entity and that the Fall was part of His overall plan, this is contrary to what believers think but it is consistent with the text. What else but an evil entity would create beings the He knew He would eventually send to a place of eternal damnation? The God of the Bible is not really omniscient, if you read the stories about God in the Bible YWHW is actually rather thick, he appears to be unable to anything right. Why bother creating humans at all, it makes no sense?Brian.

I agree with you completely, I was just speaking hypothetically for the sake of argument. Hopefully we will get a response from Willotree soon.

Hi,This is one of the things that I find very interesting about the Bible. We all have access to the same text, the same information, yet some people can clearly see that it is a collection of folk tales, legends, etiologies, poems, songs, ideologies, propaganda, etc, yet many others look at the same texts and see it as a perfect work passed on by prophets straight from God, they cannot entertain for a minute that a single word may not be 100% true. For example, they will even ignore every single piece of evidence that provess a human cannot live for 969 years, they know it is impossible but they will believe that pre-flood people couls live for nearly a thousand years.I think it is fairly obvious that these figures are fictional, to the dating system used cannot be the same as ours, the years have to be a different timespan. But I get the impression that some people believe that if they admit that a single thing in the Bible is not 100% accurate, like the 969 years example, then the whole Bible is worthless, which is nonsense.I personally think the Old Testament is a wonderful colection of texts, I read some of the Old Testament almost every day and I read it as literature. I personally feel that this is the best way to read it and some people go through the most horrendous intellectual contortions to maintain a fantasy that the Bible is an accurate recollection of past events. That is up to them of course, they are entitled to believe what they want to believe. What does bug me is when certain people do not apply the same criteria to the Bible as they do to other 'historical' texts, they will say that the miracles in the Qur'an or the Vedas could not have happened, there must be a rational explanation for them, yet they accept every miracle in the Bible without question.Willowtree will give an answer, that answer will satisfy him, which is fine, but I doubt very much whether his answer will satify us but we should at least consider what he has to say.Brian.

Let me quickly repeat, the Bible claims to be the Eternal Word of God.
I use the word "claim" because I believe I am generally debating with people who do not believe the claim.I ask the claim to be assumed, that what is written in the Bible to be what God wants known. Now, if anyone wants to debate the claim, then fine. Make your argument. I have in previous posts stated why I believe the Bible to be the word of God.In christian debate arenas this issue is always assumed. I really do not want to debate this issue here because the title of this topic reveals the debate parameters to be "the message" of the Bible.As to your comments about the Garden of Eden being folk-lore ? Please scroll back a little ways and read my response to the arguments of EvC member Stormdancer. I have already addressed this issue in the context of reply to Stormdancer which I believe you have somehow overlooked.Now, the heart of the issue.God is omnipotent. God is omniscient.These are logical assumptions ascribed to God.However, the Bible, which is my source of information about God clearly portrays God's omniscience to have ONE exception.Yes, you read correctly. There is one exception to God's omniscience."...then He aint omniscient..."Yes, He is, there is just ONE exception.Why did God set up the Garden of Eden and this test between Adam/Eve, the serpent/Satan and Himself ?Basic theology 101 :Originally, Satan was Lucifer the Highest Arch-Angel created by God. Lucifer lead worship of God in heaven, that was his primary function. However, over time, he became disatisfied with his position and organized a rebellion against God. Lucifer had free-will and he used it to rebel. God allowed this to go on for some unknown amount of time.Then, at one particular moment during musical worship of God in heaven, Lucifer believed the worship he lead to suddenly be directed at him instead of God "I will be like the Most High and ascend the mountain of God..."God, having withdrawn Himself from the situation, suddenly decided He had had enough. He cast Lucifer down out of heaven with the angels that directed the worship at him.Lucifer and his angels are now irrevocably judged. They are God-damned forever. In fact, God became so angry with this betrayal that He created a place called Hell and committed the mutineers to dwell there for all of eternity.But Lucifer, (now called Satan) vehemently protested this judgement. He begged God for another chance. God told him that there would be no more chances - that his judgement was final. God also told Satan that he would not even allow this subject to be brought up ever again and that their physical being would have to always exist in this fiery place of torment forever and ever.Then God cast them into this Hell for an unknown amount of time.After this unknown amount of time expired, God let Satan and some of his angels out of hell and made them an offer they couldn't refuse.God explained to them that He understood how/why they were angry at Him. He could of forgiven them but He declined. Anyway God recognized the fact of their anger towards Him. God went on to say that He would enable them a way, a method to get their revenge on Him for not forgiving them and for making them spend eternity in hell.God said He decided to fill the void left in heaven (one third followed Lucifer) by creating a new being made in His image called Adam-kind.If Satan could get Eve to eat of something that God forbid then God would award temporary ownwership of the Earth and its inhabitants to Satan. This would be a temporary parole from the judgement of hell AND it would be an opportunity to hurt God for His unjust punishment of not forgiving us and sending us to hell. Satan and his angels (demons) are convinced that God loves us and when they are successful in destroying us they exact revenge on God for His punishment of them.God set up the Garden test for these reasons. He aims to populate heaven with persons who trust what He says, unlike the devil and his angels who rebelled.The point is that we are on trial, we are free-will pawns in a war for the trust of mankind between God and Satan.Eve CHOSE to trust the serpent/Satan and eat the fruit that she knew was forbidden by God. Adam was a pussy whipped spineless excuse of a man who ate because Eve ate.There was no trickery by the serpent. Both of them ate because they chose to. Like Dr.Scott says "....show me any deception by the serpent.."When confronted by God, Adam blamed God for giving him the woman which made him eat. Eve blamed the serpent claiming that it somehow beguiled her. This is all nonsense. They chose to mis-use their freedom and eat of the tree.Only problem is WE have to pay for these sins of Adam/Eve. The Bible doesn't declare the fairness of it, we are born separated from God under the jurisdiction of Satan. That is a biblical declaration that God NEVER explains. It is this way because that is the way He wants it.God is looking for persons who have the freedom to do otherwise to trust Him via a promise in the Bible that fits their circumstance of need. Satan seeks to prevent God from getting this.Persons who trust God are guaranteed eternal life in heaven, they will fill the void created by the departure of Satan and his angels.Now, IF trust/faith is the issue (and it is) then just like in the Garden, God does not know for certain which way you/I will choose to go.He is prepared to respond if you trust Him and He is prepared to react if you/I don't. But He does not know for certain what you will do when faced with the option to trust what He says or not.This is WHY God "repented" over choosing Saul. After Saul revealed his true colors by living a life that did not trust God, he became rejected by God - given up on. God didn't know what Saul would do UNTIL he actually did it.Can God predict what a person will do ? OF COURSE. The issue is what a person will do IF they have the freedom to trust God or not.One of the greatest examples of the exception to God's omniscience is in Genesis 22.Abraham was at least 120 years old when God said to him in the 12th verse : "....NOW I KNOW that thy fearest God ..."Finally, after 120 years and Isaac bound for sacrifice with Abrahams arm stretched out with the knife ready to kill Isaac, God stops the drama and declares that He is NOW convinced that Abraham fears Him.If you fear God then you want to make Him happy and trust is what makes Him happy.Abraham passed his test, but that drama was a type a play so to speak of what God would do to His own Son on that exact spot. Only in God's case He would not spare His own hand and spare His Son who offered His life as the Second Adam to give God the means to fellowship and save sinning man from the hands of Satan.The only thing God does not know, is the one thing He cannot create (exception to His omnipotence) IF man will trust what He says or what the sepent/Satan says. God cannot create trust, it must be freely given.God has bound Himself to the wild card of our free-will. IF we fail Satan gets his irrevocable pain on God. IF we trust Him then we get to fill the void vacated by Satan in heaven.The purpose of the Bible is for man to discover that God can be trusted to do what He says - good or bad - what God says will happen.
This is intended for one ultimate and supreme reason:That, when Satan tempts us/I/we/you and tries to make us doubt that our sins are not forgiven, we can run to the promise of His word and claim His forgiveness, a forgiveness that was denied to Satan.That is the message contained in the Bible. Now you know.

Hello WILLOWTREE,How does the slate clearing incident of the flood fit into your scenario?Did God knock over the checker board because he was losing? Or are they going for the best 2 out of 3.Namaste'Amlodhi

I don't know of any verse in the bible which makes that claim.

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2 Tim 3:16

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Every scripture [is] divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness;

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that the man of God may be complete, fully fitted to every good work.

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My understanding of the word of God, it that it is a living spirit as opposed to text on printed paper.I can see a lot of quoting of the word of God in text but I wouldn't call such quoting the word of God per se.

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James 4:5

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Think ye that the scripture speaks in vain?
Does the Spirit which has taken his abode in us desire enviously?

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John 10:34

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Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

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35

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If he called *them* gods to whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

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36

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do ye say of him whom the Father has sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest, because I said, I am Son of God ?

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I'd say the word of God is far to excellent to be reduced to text, ink on paper.

Willowtree,
Doesn't matter if there is one exception or a million, either god is Omniscient or he is not. You can't have it both ways. Umm are you saying that we should believe in god because we are afraid of him? Not a very good reason to believe.Question1: Why does god see it as unfair that he punished Satan to eternity in hell yet he sees no problem with punishing humans to eternity in hell?Question2: Why a book? Of all the billions of ways to get his message across why would he use a book? Why not write it in the sky or have it imprinted onto our brains at birth? And what is the point of god giving us freewill if he doesn't want us to use it?More importantly why did god create satan with character flaws? Why wouldn't god create him to be perfect so he wouldn't rebel?

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"If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one another."
-- Epicurus

No, they are not logical assumptions. In fact, the overwhelming number of God-constructs were neither.