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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4261 of 5179 (770344)
10-03-2015 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 4259 by Tangle
10-03-2015 6:21 PM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
None of it pertinant. Give us real world evidence that prayers always work, as was your claim.
Why are you distorting what I said? I said conditions have to be met and that the prayers you can always expect to be answered are those in God's will. I also said that although few here would want to see these particular prayers answered, the most dramatic answers to prayer I can think of are those for Christian revival such as those I linked to. Christian revival on a great scale WOULD affect the gun violence in the nation and a great many other things besides.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4259 by Tangle, posted 10-03-2015 6:21 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4263 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2015 1:44 AM Faith has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4262 of 5179 (770347)
10-03-2015 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 4242 by Faith
10-03-2015 1:45 PM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
My prayers get answers very frequently, especially prayers for theological understanding, or knowledge in general. And lately I've been praying for God's love toward my enemies, including you all here, because I have so little of it, and He's actually answered, even for the hardest ones here for me to love.
And yet you still describe us as your "enemies".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4242 by Faith, posted 10-03-2015 1:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4266 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 5:30 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 4263 of 5179 (770348)
10-04-2015 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4261 by Faith
10-03-2015 9:57 PM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Faith writes:
Why are you distorting what I said?
You regularly say things, then pretend you said something else. This is what you said
Faith writes:
Praying in God's will ALWAYS works.
If that is the case, you should be able to point to real world, direct effects of prayer. You know, an immediate end to gun deaths and school shootings as we are discussing. or something similar. Pointing to short term Christian revivals is not evidence of prayer, it's evidence of people doing what they do.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4261 by Faith, posted 10-03-2015 9:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4265 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 5:28 AM Tangle has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 4264 of 5179 (770349)
10-04-2015 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 4227 by Faith
10-03-2015 9:25 AM


Re: A better source of the list of shooters on drugs
Faith writes:
I don't have any reason to think their information is untrustworthy without further evidence.
Just thought this statement was worth highlighting.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4227 by Faith, posted 10-03-2015 9:25 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4265 of 5179 (770350)
10-04-2015 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 4263 by Tangle
10-04-2015 1:44 AM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Your distortion was to say I said prayer always works. I did not. I said, as you now quote, praying IN GOD'S WILL always works.
If enough of us consistently prayed against the gun violence that would cut down on a lot of it, but the gun violence is likely to be part of God's judgment on the nation, part of the deterioration of the culture I mentioned, and turning back God's judgments means coming back into His will, a general culture-wide turning back to obedience to His law. That's what revivals bring about.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4263 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2015 1:44 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4269 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2015 8:43 AM Faith has not replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4266 of 5179 (770351)
10-04-2015 5:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4262 by Dr Adequate
10-03-2015 11:49 PM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
You ARE my enemies. I couldn't pray for my enemies if you weren't my enemies could I?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4262 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-03-2015 11:49 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 4267 of 5179 (770355)
10-04-2015 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 4262 by Dr Adequate
10-03-2015 11:49 PM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Dr A writes:
And yet you still describe us as your "enemies".
Faith writes:
You ARE my enemies. I couldn't pray for my enemies if you weren't my enemies could I?
So there, you heathen devil worshiping baby eating atheist, you! You freedom pushing freethought civil rights advocating anti-my kind of biblican christian spawn of liberal satan! God will burn you in the Lake of Fire! Because he loves you.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4262 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-03-2015 11:49 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(4)
Message 4268 of 5179 (770356)
10-04-2015 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 4267 by AZPaul3
10-04-2015 7:58 AM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
You do make it hard to love you, but I'm not giving up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4267 by AZPaul3, posted 10-04-2015 7:58 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4281 by ringo, posted 10-04-2015 2:15 PM Faith has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 4269 of 5179 (770358)
10-04-2015 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4265 by Faith
10-04-2015 5:28 AM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Faith writes:
praying IN GOD'S WILL always works.
Uh? Praying only works if you're praying in god's will - wtf does that mean?
If enough of us consistently prayed against the gun violence that would cut down on a lot of it,
How many Christians would it take and by how much would it be cut? What do they have to do to pray in god's will for it instead of just praying?
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4265 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 5:28 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 4270 of 5179 (770359)
10-04-2015 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 4265 by Faith
10-04-2015 5:28 AM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Faith writes:
If enough of us consistently prayed against the gun violence that would cut down on a lot of it,...
Let's not turn this into a religious discussion. You could offer prayer as a solution to any problem being discussed in any thread. "Let's pray that terrorists groups wane away, that climate change is manageable, that resistant strains of once treatable diseases don't wipe us out, and that by next year we'll all be shaving with lasers." If you want to discuss the power of prayer I suggest you propose a new thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4265 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 5:28 AM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 4271 of 5179 (770360)
10-04-2015 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 4212 by Faith
10-02-2015 1:56 PM


Re: Oregon college shooter targeted Christians
Let's destroy the Second Amendment because another person went berserk.
The sad fact is that Americans do not seem to be able to be trusted not to go on killing sprees.
Why would you want guns in the hands of a nation that go on regular killing sprees?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4212 by Faith, posted 10-02-2015 1:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4272 of 5179 (770363)
10-04-2015 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 4271 by Larni
10-04-2015 9:25 AM


Re: Oregon college shooter targeted Christians
Let's destroy the Second Amendment because another person went berserk.
The sad fact is that Americans do not seem to be able to be trusted not to go on killing sprees.
Why would you want guns in the hands of a nation that go on regular killing sprees?
Well, let's get this into perspective if we can. These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine. They may be related to the psychotropic drugs I posted on, which are also a fairly recent phenomenon, at the level they are prescribed now anyway. But at least it's all related to the great cultural sea change, brought about, dare I say it, by the forces of liberalism over the last half century. The death of Christian morality is a biggie for instance.
And yes, I also suspect there could be .a more direct conspiracy of some sort that affects unstable people with guns. They usually kill themselves so finding out about any such influences is hampered even if someone was alerted to look for them. Bringing down the Second Amendment has got to be high on the list of the projects of any enemy who wants to completely undermine America's ability to defend ourselves. I could name plenty of other such projects that are working only too well in that respect, the Second Amendment may be the last bulwark we've got.
And excuse me, but the UK and Europe are not exactly models of security against invaders either. You may seem to be doing just fine having crippled your citizenry by taking away their guns, but wait until America's Second Amendment falls and then see how safe you are.
ABE: This thread is a perfect example of how well propaganda works. Get a negative line going against America, make it sound sophisticated and reasonable, make disarmed nations look perfectly safe, which they only are as long as we're armed, be sure to vilify Protestants too because the Reformation was the foundation of the prosperity and strength of America, and went a long way in that direction for you guys too, but you actually think you're safer without all that, having no idea where your protection comes from ultimately. You've got Muslims increasing their population in your midst, SO seemingly benign, while you ignore the teachings of Islam that growing their population within enemy nations is one of their strategies for taking the world for Allah. Well, it is probably too late but I guess I can keep on saying it anyway.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4271 by Larni, posted 10-04-2015 9:25 AM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4275 by Percy, posted 10-04-2015 10:34 AM Faith has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 4273 of 5179 (770364)
10-04-2015 10:01 AM


Trump Weighs In
Cementing his position as the leading whack job amongst Republican presidential candidates, Trump yesterday weighed in on the Umpqua tragedy:
quote:
"The Second Amendment of our Constitution is clear. Every time something happens, they don't blame mental illness -- that our mental healthcare is out of whack and all of the other problems."
Both sides in the gun debate make this mistake, believing that psychology somehow has the power to detect murderers before they murder. They don't and never will.
Trump continues:
quote:
"And by the way, it was a gun-free zone. I will tell you -- if you had a couple of the teachers or somebody with guns in that room, you would have been a hell of a lot better off."
In case no one on the anti-gun side has ever made this clear let me state that Trump is correct. Armed students and teachers could have averted or diminished the catastrophe. What goes unnoted by the gun nuts is that increasing the number of armed citizens by several times will also increase the gun death rate by several times. The cost of this approach to gun massacres would be an increase in annual gun deaths from the current 30,000 per year to something closer to 100,000. According to Wikipedia there have been an average of 1.05 mass shootings daily in 2015, where a mass shooting is four or more people shot. Increasing the number of guns in the hands of citizens going about their daily lives would increase shootings of all kinds, including mass shootings.
We also need ammunition control. Obviously the ammunition used in many mass shootings is extremely deadly. Those gun nuts who want to carry their guns everywhere and who have perfect split second judgement can choose hollow points and risk facing murder instead of attempted murder charges when they make a bad decision, but for defense, particularly if the gun will be carried everywhere, a .22 loaded with round nose is plenty good enough, and they'll be less likely to kill someone.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 4292 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2015 7:57 PM Percy has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 4274 of 5179 (770365)
10-04-2015 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 4271 by Larni
10-04-2015 9:25 AM


ammo-sexual orgasm rights
Why would you want guns in the hands of a nation that go on regular killing sprees?
Why do you want to infringe on the rights of the ammo-sexuals to have an adrenaline rush orgasm every time they hear a loud bang?
Guns are just their vibrator toys you know.
Sheesh these rights infringing people really get on my nerves ... maybe ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


(5)
Message 4275 of 5179 (770366)
10-04-2015 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 4272 by Faith
10-04-2015 9:58 AM


Re: Oregon college shooter targeted Christians
Faith writes:
These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine.
Yeah, right. Charles Whitman murdered 16 people from the clock tower on the campus of the University of Texas in Austin in 1966. Poking around a bit on the Internet it's easy to go further back in time. Neinz Schmidt killed 5 at a school in 1913. Mass shootings have increased along with the increase in gun prevalence.
They may be related to the psychotropic drugs I posted on,...
Stop bringing this up if you're going to refuse to support it.
But at least it's all related to the great cultural sea change, brought about, dare I say it, by the forces of liberalism over the last half century.
This is just your groundless, unsubstantiated and unwarranted opinion.
The death of Christian morality is a biggie for instance.
There has been no death of Christian morality.
And yes, I also suspect there could be a more direct conspiracy of some sort that affects unstable people with guns. They usually kill themselves so finding out about any such influences is hampered even if someone was alerted to look for them.
There's no evidence of conspiracy or some mysterious influence. Mass murderers committing suicide has been a common outcome. Look at this list of school massacres, with two suicides in the 1920's. And that's just school massacres. You'll find suicides in massacres at other locations, here's a more general list for the America. Notice that mass killings are not unique to the US, but over the past few decades we have had many more of them than countries with strong gun control.
Bringing down the Second Amendment has got to be high on the list of the projects of any enemy who wants to completely undermine America's ability to defend ourselves.
That's absurd. Anyone who thinks America will be defended by an armed citizenry lining the beaches is delusional. Defending America is appropriately the responsibility of the military.
And excuse me, but the UK and Europe are not exactly models of security against invaders either. You may seem to be doing just fine having crippled your citizenry by taking away their guns, but wait until America's Second Amendment falls and then see how safe you are.
Once the 2nd amendment is properly interpreted we'll be much safer. The gun death rate is proportional to gun prevalence, so reducing gun prevalence is key to reducing the gun death rate.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4272 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 9:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4276 by RAZD, posted 10-04-2015 11:34 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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