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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 4291 of 5179 (770391)
10-04-2015 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 4277 by Faith
10-04-2015 1:10 PM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
Faith writes:
  • One mass killing in 1966 and one in 1913 is hardly a fair comparison to the spate of such killings since the 90s.
That's not what you said. You said, "These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine," but it's easy to find mass killings before the 90's. I just happened to mention only two. Mass killings have increased with the increasing prevalence of guns, and the increased ease of their acquisition.
  • You say there has been no death of Christian morality. I'm talking of course about BIBLICAL Christian morality.
What you say is never what you're talking about, is it. Anyway, if there's been any death of BIBLICAL Christian morality then it's been much greater in Europe, so why don't they have more mass killings?
Anecdotal data? From Ammoland? Well, I guess that's the best you can expect when someone thinks any information is trustworthy without further evidence. To believe what you do you must think America is the only nation in the world with psychotropic drugs. You need studies demonstrating people become more likely to commit murder when under the influence of psychotropic drugs.
What we know is that the more guns, the more gun deaths. Eliminate the guns and you'll eliminate the deaths.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4277 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 1:10 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4293 by marc9000, posted 10-04-2015 9:17 PM Percy has replied
 Message 4296 by Faith, posted 10-05-2015 4:13 AM Percy has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4292 of 5179 (770392)
10-04-2015 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 4273 by Percy
10-04-2015 10:01 AM


Re: Trump Weighs In
quote:
"And by the way, it was a gun-free zone. I will tell you -- if you had a couple of the teachers or somebody with guns in that room, you would have been a hell of a lot better off."
Percy writes:
In case no one on the anti-gun side has ever made this clear let me state that Trump is correct.
Trump was 'sorta correct'. The community college was not a gun free zone. In fact, gun free public college zones are illegal in Oregon. The school can have a policy of not allowing guns on campus, but those rules cannot apply to students who have been issued a concealed carry permit. Those students can carry on campus, and the news reports indicated that there were people on campus doing concealed carry.
What goes unnoted by the gun nuts is that increasing the number of armed citizens by several times....
Given the laws in Oregon, we don't know the current number of guns that there are in the classroom. There may already be one or two guns per classroom.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4273 by Percy, posted 10-04-2015 10:01 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4295 by Tangle, posted 10-05-2015 3:35 AM NoNukes has replied
 Message 4310 by Percy, posted 10-05-2015 2:30 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 4293 of 5179 (770395)
10-04-2015 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 4291 by Percy
10-04-2015 7:56 PM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
Mass killings have increased with the increasing prevalence of guns, and the increased ease of their acquisition.
I enter Bizarro World reluctantly and with trepidation, but I have a question. Mass killings have also increased with the increasing prevalence of atheism in the scientific community. This Oregon shooting, and the recent church shooting were hate crimes against Christians. Noble prize winner Steven Weinberg claimed that a significant accomplishment for the scientific community would be to "weaken the hold of religion". What better way to weaken the hold of religion in the U.S. than to kill Christians! No one in the news media seems to question what role a secular organization that sometimes opposes traditional Christian morals might have in crimes against Christian people. If there are more attacks on Christians in the coming months or years, do you think the scientific community should have it's activities more closely monitored by government?
What we know is that the more guns, the more gun deaths. Eliminate the guns and you'll eliminate the deaths.
Eliminate the heroin, and you'll eliminate the heroin deaths?
The more automobiles, the more automobile deaths. The more kitchen knives, the more kitchen knife deaths. The more baseball bats, the more baseball bat deaths.
Back in Message 3728, I asked this question of you, and got no response from you, or anyone.
quote:
But enough of all that, how would a total gun ban be implemented? If it was implemented basically the same as the 55 mph speed limit - "Congress voted on this, and this is how things are". A few months grace period for everyone to turn their guns in, before arrests and imprisonment started? What percentage of gun owners would turn their gun in? I suspect it would be VERY low. An unregistered gun would become a novelty, their value would go way up. The government would realize this - how would they react? How intense would their searches for guns be? Could this gun ban be repealed?
All I got was a "straw man" accusation in the next message, I assume that is supposed to mean that gun control advocates claim to NOT be in favor of a total gun ban. Yet their rhetoric makes it clear that they are. It's one of many reasons gun control isn't more successful in the U.S.
Do you have any proposals for how gun control could be more successful than heroin control? This entire thread is very low on specifics on just what control advocates want to do. It leads logical people to believe that they don't really know, they just trust the government, the Democrat party, to make those decisions. Obama's latest rants don't even contain specifics. He just wants you to trust him. Do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4291 by Percy, posted 10-04-2015 7:56 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4294 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-04-2015 11:18 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 4298 by NoNukes, posted 10-05-2015 8:35 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 4301 by Percy, posted 10-05-2015 8:44 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 4315 by Modulous, posted 10-05-2015 5:18 PM marc9000 has not replied

Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 4294 of 5179 (770398)
10-04-2015 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4293 by marc9000
10-04-2015 9:17 PM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
Do you think mass shootings are a bad thing?
Do you think mass shootings of Christians are a bad thing?
Do you think mass shootings of non-Christians are a bad thing?
Do you think mass shootings of atheists is a bad thing?
Do you have any suggestions on how mass shootings can be stopped considering that there is the second amendment, hundreds of millions of guns and almost anyone can buy a gun and pretty much all of the politicians are either paid off by or afraid of the gun lobby? Anything?
I realize that mass shootings are a small percentage of the gunshot deaths.
Do you have any solution for those?
And while I'm asking questions, should irresponsible hunters like Dick Cheney ever be allowed to own a gun or have a hunting license again?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4293 by marc9000, posted 10-04-2015 9:17 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4322 by marc9000, posted 10-05-2015 8:17 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 4295 of 5179 (770402)
10-05-2015 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 4292 by NoNukes
10-04-2015 7:57 PM


Re: Trump Weighs In
NoNukes writes:
Given the laws in Oregon, we don't know the current number of guns that there are in the classroom. There may already be one or two guns per classroom.
This highlights the problem; the idea that students - or teachers - could be legally carrying guns around in school is insane. It's hard to say how bizzarre this sounds to outsiders. It shows how anaesthetised Americans have become to the problem of gun culture.
I've said this before but it's still relevant, in the UK we had a problem with gangs using knives. The government did one of those knee-jerk reactions and made it an imprisionable offence to be carry a knife with a blade longer than 4.5 inches in most circumstances. I'm doubtful it made much of a difference to knife crime - but what we didn't do was issue knives to everyone else in the expectation that that would solve the problem.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4292 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2015 7:57 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4299 by NoNukes, posted 10-05-2015 8:39 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 4323 by marc9000, posted 10-05-2015 8:23 PM Tangle has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4296 of 5179 (770403)
10-05-2015 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 4291 by Percy
10-04-2015 7:56 PM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
One mass killing in 1966 and one in 1913 is hardly a fair comparison to the spate of such killings since the 90s.
That's not what you said. You said, "These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine," but it's easy to find mass killings before the 90's. I just happened to mention only two.
I really can't fathom why you wouldn't know I wasn't saying there had never been any mass killings before the 90s. What we've been seeing since then is an increase to the point that it's every couple of years or so and we're almost getting to take it for granted. It's the numbers and the frequency that we're all aware of that anybody is talking about, not just the occasional berserkery years apart.
Mass killings have increased with the increasing prevalence of guns, and the increased ease of their acquisition.
Makes a nice simple refrain I guess.
You say there has been no death of Christian morality. I'm talking of course about BIBLICAL Christian morality.
What you say is never what you're talking about, is it.
It always is only I realize belatedly that you don't have the same definitions I have. And I would think you would know this too.
Anyway, if there's been any death of BIBLICAL Christian morality then it's been much greater in Europe, so why don't they have more mass killings?
I wouldn't expect the exact same consequences from culture to culture myself.
I gave two sources, not just Ammoland. Do you actually think they made up the drugs each of the killers was on, and made up the warning labels on the various drugs too? Ad hominems at EvC reach new heights of absurdity.
We aren't going to eliminate the guns so it would be a good idea to think in terms of other ways to prevent the problem.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4291 by Percy, posted 10-04-2015 7:56 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4297 by MrHambre, posted 10-05-2015 6:43 AM Faith has replied
 Message 4302 by Percy, posted 10-05-2015 10:25 AM Faith has not replied

MrHambre
Member (Idle past 1393 days)
Posts: 1495
From: Framingham, MA, USA
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 4297 of 5179 (770404)
10-05-2015 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4296 by Faith
10-05-2015 4:13 AM


The Culture of Gun Fetishism
We aren't going to eliminate the guns so it would be a good idea to think in terms of other ways to prevent the problem.
It's a moot point anyway, as humanist attorney and author David Niose points out in an article titled, Badass: The Culture that Makes Gun Reform Impossible.
There's a huge problem with the availability of guns in our society. But the worse problem is that the USA has a paranoid gun culture that defines firearms in terms of manhood, security, and power instead of as dangerous items whose use deserves to be regulated in the same way as other such implements. Until after the Sandy Hook incident, I had no idea that there were so many people in America ---otherwise functioning adults--- who had to have a gun within arm's reach 24-7. That's a sickness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4296 by Faith, posted 10-05-2015 4:13 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4303 by Faith, posted 10-05-2015 10:30 AM MrHambre has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4298 of 5179 (770407)
10-05-2015 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 4293 by marc9000
10-04-2015 9:17 PM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
A few months grace period for everyone to turn their guns in, before arrests and imprisonment started? What percentage of gun owners would turn their gun in? I suspect it would be VERY low
That is of course your suspicion. Why is anyone other than you responsible for defending or answering you based on your suspicion. Your suspicions are often wrong.
For example, the Oregon shooter did not target Christians. While he did ask people about their faith, he simply told those who professed to be Christians that he planned to join them soon. He shot his vicitims regardless of who they were. Does not sound like the shooter was professing any atheist believes with. Quite the opposite.
Nonreligious Questions
quote:
McGowan told family members that the gunman didn’t specifically target Christians but asked them about faith. The shooter, apparently planning to die during the massacre, told students: I’ll see you soon or I’ll meet you soon.
The bottom line? Only two of the nine victims are confirmed to be Christians. While some of the other seven may be Christians, there’s currently no publicly available evidence for it. And several others seem to hold beliefs other than Christianity.
Do you have any proposals for how gun control could be more successful than heroin control? This entire thread is very low on specifics on just what control advocates want to do.
Perhaps that lack of specifics is because you are looking for a particular answer and many of the people posting don't agree with you. There have been plenty of specific proposals. For the most parts those proposals are not bans although there are people here who want complete bans. It is my opinion that the people who are holding out for a ban are just dreamers. They are unlikely to get their way.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4293 by marc9000, posted 10-04-2015 9:17 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4324 by marc9000, posted 10-05-2015 8:36 PM NoNukes has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4299 of 5179 (770408)
10-05-2015 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 4295 by Tangle
10-05-2015 3:35 AM


Re: Trump Weighs In
It shows how anaesthetised Americans have become to the problem of gun culture.
Well, no. It does not quite show that. There are those of us who find the huge number of guns a problem and those of us who think we should all be carrying guns. But in the face of laws passed that allow the latter, the rest of us are stuck with our concerns.
but what we didn't do was issue knives to everyone else in the expectation that that would solve the problem.
Yes, that would be insane. I knew it was only a matter of time before some politician suggested more guns to solve the problem. Most of us do know that such solutions are idiotic.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4295 by Tangle, posted 10-05-2015 3:35 AM Tangle has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4300 of 5179 (770409)
10-05-2015 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4286 by Tangle
10-04-2015 6:08 PM


food for thought
Are Americans more mentally ill than the Swiss or Canadians?
Possibly. We are certainly under more stress due to high income inequality and low social comforts. They test out happier than Americans too.
And guns are appealing as images of "leveling" tools (pun intended).
Here's some food for thought:
quote:
Guns killed more Americans in 12 years than AIDS, war, and illegal drug overdoses combined
Thursday night, during an impassioned address about the shooting at Umpqua Community College, President Obama laid out a challenge to the media. "Have news organizations tally up the number of Americans who've been killed through terrorist attacks in the last decade and the number of Americans who've been killed by gun violence, and post those side by side on your news reports," he asked.
We've looked at those numbers a bit, but you can take this comparison even further: if you include all gun deaths (including homicides, suicides, and accidents), guns killed more Americans between 2001 and 2013 than terrorism, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, AIDS, and illegal drug overdoses combined:

Details in article
It would be interesting to break gun deaths down into Suicide, Domestic abuse and Other.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 4286 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2015 6:08 PM Tangle has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 4301 of 5179 (770410)
10-05-2015 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 4293 by marc9000
10-04-2015 9:17 PM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
marc9000 writes:
Mass killings have also increased with the increasing prevalence of atheism in the scientific community.
Many fewer Americans are atheists than Europeans. Roughly 20% of Europeans are atheists, but less than 10% of Americans. If mass killings were correlated with atheism then there would be far more mass killings in Europe than in the US, yet the reverse is true.
What we know is that the more guns, the more gun deaths. Eliminate the guns and you'll eliminate the deaths.
Eliminate the heroin, and you'll eliminate the heroin deaths?
Well, yes, precisely. We know eliminating drugs is very difficult, because addiction is a powerful force. Are gun nuts addicted to their guns? Where addictive forces are involved banning isn't an effective approach, but I don't think it's a factor with guns.
And I'm not arguing that banning guns is a practical approach. I'm just emphasizing something that should be self-evident and eminently obvious but somehow isn't to the gun nuts: guns are central to the problem of gun deaths. Gun deaths aren't caused by atheism or a decline in Christian morals or a scientific conspiracy or anything else like that. Each murderer has his own reasons, his own pathology. There's no pattern. No one knows who's going to snap or why they're going to snap or where they're going to snap, but when they do snap if there's a gun available then murders will happen. The gun death rate will decline when the availability of deadly guns declines.
The more automobiles, the more automobile deaths.
Yes, absolutely. More precisely, the more automobile miles the more automobile deaths. The government reacted by mandating increasingly strict auto safety standards beginning around 1970 (in reaction to increasing deaths during the decade of the 1960's), and auto deaths per vehicle mile have dropped:
Wouldn't it be wonderful to have a similar graph for gun deaths? Of course, but instead gun deaths are increasing. Possibly gun deaths might pass auto deaths soon:
So how might we reverse that rising line for gun deaths? Ban guns? Sure, but the gun lobby says no. Stronger gun control? Sure, but the gun lobby says no. Stricter gun safety standards, analogous to auto safety standards? Sure, but the gun lobby says no. More studies on how to reduce gun deaths? Sure, but (incredibly and damningly for something as innocuous as efforts to increase our knowledge) the gun lobby says no.
The gun lobby blocks all efforts to reduce gun deaths, and blames gun deaths on everything but guns. That's crazy.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Wordsmith first paragraph.
Edited by Percy, : Fix minor grammar issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4293 by marc9000, posted 10-04-2015 9:17 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4328 by marc9000, posted 10-05-2015 9:47 PM Percy has replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 4302 of 5179 (770415)
10-05-2015 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 4296 by Faith
10-05-2015 4:13 AM


Re: Increase in killings, psychotropic drugs, moral degeneration, conspiracies
Faith writes:
That's not what you said. You said, "These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine," but it's easy to find mass killings before the 90's. I just happened to mention only two.
I really can't fathom why you wouldn't know I wasn't saying there had never been any mass killings before the 90s.
I didn't think you had said, "There had never been any mass killings before the 90s." I thought you said exactly what you said: "These mass killings are recent, began in the 90s with Columbine."
You've been told many times over the years that you often don't say what you later claim you meant. You and Buzsaw (may he rest in glorious peace) were legendary for making misstatements followed by voluminous arguments that you really meant something else. Until you start having some "Doh! How could I have said that!" moments you're never going to correct this problem.
What we've been seeing since then is an increase to the point that it's every couple of years or so and we're almost getting to take it for granted. It's the numbers and the frequency that we're all aware of that anybody is talking about, not just the occasional berserkery years apart.
Yes, agreed (mostly), but that's not what you originally said. Anyway, it's not "every couple of years of so." It's hundreds of incidents per year that 4 or more people are killed in the US. From Wikipedia: " As of September 8, the U.S. was averaging 1.05 mass shootings per day in 2015 (defined as incidents in which four or more people are shot)."
Mass killings have increased with the increasing prevalence of guns, and the increased ease of their acquisition.
Makes a nice simple refrain I guess.
Makes a nice evasion, I guess, of something that happens to be true. Gun deaths will rise and fall with rising and falling prevalence of guns, because it's guns that cause gun deaths.
Anyway, if there's been any death of BIBLICAL Christian morality then it's been much greater in Europe, so why don't they have more mass killings?
I wouldn't expect the exact same consequences from culture to culture myself.
In other words you're just making things up. You have no evidence for your claim of a link between BIBLICAL Christian morality and gun deaths, nor even any evidence of any link to anything in other more atheistic cultures such as Europe.
I gave two sources, not just Ammoland. Do you actually think they made up the drugs each of the killers was on, and made up the warning labels on the various drugs too? Ad hominems at EvC reach new heights of absurdity.
There was no ad hominem. All you provided are lists of murderers who were taking some form of psychiatric medication. How many weren't? How many were people who'd gone off their meds? We don't know, because the one's who weren't taking medication aren't listed.
What you need is what I already said you need: studies showing that these drugs make people more likely to murder. You've made a claim and have no evidence supporting it. It's actually a complex issue. Certainly the drug warnings indicate that some patients might become worse, but does that mean more likely to murder? A study might find that among people with a certain psychiatric condition under a certain medication, 5% become more likely to murder and 95% become less likely to murder, with the net result of less murders. Or it might find the opposite. Or it might be inconclusive. But you don't have a study. You have only woefully incomplete lists.
We aren't going to eliminate the guns so it would be a good idea to think in terms of other ways to prevent the problem.
I don't think we're going to eliminate guns, either. I'm just making the point that it is the guns that are the cause of gun deaths, not something else.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4296 by Faith, posted 10-05-2015 4:13 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 4303 of 5179 (770416)
10-05-2015 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 4297 by MrHambre
10-05-2015 6:43 AM


Re: The Culture of Gun Fetishism
Utter nonsense. I've known a lot of gun owners and there isn't a shred of resemblance between them and that Hollywood-invented portrait of them. I would think if anyone really wanted to influence them to help deal with the problems of mass killings and other gun violence, including accidents due to irresponsibility, it would help to treat them as intelligent responsible human beings which the vast majority are. As long as this liberal smear campaign continues don't expect much help.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4297 by MrHambre, posted 10-05-2015 6:43 AM MrHambre has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4304 by Omnivorous, posted 10-05-2015 11:42 AM Faith has replied
 Message 4306 by ringo, posted 10-05-2015 11:53 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 4307 by vimesey, posted 10-05-2015 12:19 PM Faith has not replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 4304 of 5179 (770418)
10-05-2015 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 4303 by Faith
10-05-2015 10:30 AM


Re: The Culture of Gun Fetishism
Faith writes:
Utter nonsense. I've known a lot of gun owners and there isn't a shred of resemblance between them and that Hollywood-invented portrait of them. I would think if anyone really wanted to influence them to help deal with the problems of mass killings and other gun violence, including accidents due to irresponsibility, it would help to treat them as intelligent responsible human beings which the vast majority are. As long as this liberal smear campaign continues don't expect much help.
You mean it is imperative that we counter the Hollywood myth that many gun owners are self-righteous narcissists who won't help solve the problem of mass-murdered elementary school kids as long as their "intelligent responsible" feelings are hurt?
It hurt my feelings that women on campus saw every man as a potential threat during a particularly bad season of sexual assaults in the 80s, but I still agreed to help as a library-to-dorm escort when asked.
I guess I could have refused, telling them that men don't rape women, penises rape women, but I couldn't achieve that level of responsible intelligence.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4303 by Faith, posted 10-05-2015 10:30 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4313 by Faith, posted 10-05-2015 3:30 PM Omnivorous has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 4305 of 5179 (770419)
10-05-2015 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 4287 by Faith
10-04-2015 6:09 PM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Faith writes:
Should be even easier once I get used to this love thing.
I find that love is easier after giving up Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4287 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 6:09 PM Faith has not replied

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