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Author Topic:   Climate Change Denier comes in from the cold: SCIENCE!!!
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 582 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 241 of 944 (770695)
10-12-2015 11:14 PM


Never mind
An excellent article but the author had some wacky ideas on other topics that discredited him.....too bad...henry dale Hoffman
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 242 of 944 (771301)
10-23-2015 10:49 PM


Snowball In Hell
In a remarkable turnabout, 59 percent of Republicans now say climate change is happening, up from 47 percent just six months ago ...
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 243 of 944 (775331)
12-31-2015 9:57 AM


Funny Weather We're Having
Article here.
2015 is the warmest year ever recorded. Thirteen of the top 14 warmest years on the books have happened this century. And here in the United States, it has been a hot, strange month. Many cities across the northeast smashed their Christmas and Christmas Eve temperature records not at midday, but at the stroke of midnight. For the hundred-plus years that New York temperatures have been recorded, the city has never been warmer than 63 degrees Fahrenheit on a December 24. Yet at 1 a.m. on Christmas Eve of this year, the thermometer measured 67 degrees.

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Omnivorous, posted 12-31-2015 5:06 PM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 246 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2016 10:35 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 244 of 944 (775361)
12-31-2015 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 9:57 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
Also, excellent summary of 2015's weather anomalies here.
quote:
James Morison, the principal investigator of the North Pole Environmental Observatory, said he’s never heard of temperatures above freezing in the wintertime there. Looking closer at the weather data, it appears this event is in fact unprecedented during the time period from late December through late April.
On Wednesday, the North Pole will be warmer than Western Texas, Southern California, and parts of the Sahara.
quote:
A weather forecast for Wednesday morning shows a rare midwinter warm front over the North Pole, with temperatures a few degrees above freezingabout 50 or 60 degrees warmer than normal for late December.
I fear we live in interesting times. It must suck to be young.
Edited by Omnivorous, : O reason not the need.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 245 of 944 (775402)
01-01-2016 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Omnivorous
12-31-2015 5:06 PM


We have seen the enemy, and it IS us.
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
Go to the site as it is interactive.
quote:
NASA's Model
Researchers who study the Earth's climate create models to test their assumptions about the causes and trajectory of global warming. Around the world there are 28 or so research groups in more than a dozen countries who have written61 climate models. Each takes a slightly different approach to the elements of the climate system, such as ice, oceans, or atmospheric chemistry.
The computer model that generated the results for this graphic is called "ModelE2," and was created byNASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), which has been a leader in climate projections for a generation. ModelE2 contains something on the order of 500,000 lines of code, and is run on a supercomputer at the NASA Center for Climate Simulation in Greenbelt, Maryland.
Go through each of the graphics to see. Sorry, I was not able to capture the images, as they are active.
The ones of greater interest are on:
page 5 - all natural factors combined
page 10 - all human factors combined.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 246 of 944 (775404)
01-01-2016 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Dr Adequate
12-31-2015 9:57 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
Yet at 1 a.m. on Christmas Eve of this year, the thermometer measured 67 degrees.
This last argument is probably an example of one that AGW defending folks should not use. It is a weather not a climate argument and the very next coldest day record that shows up is going to be used as a counter argument.
Or maybe I am wrong. Can someone make the case that pointing to a particular warmest day on record isn't a bad argument?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-31-2015 9:57 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(2)
Message 247 of 944 (775405)
01-01-2016 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by NoNukes
01-01-2016 10:35 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
NoNukes writes:
Or maybe I am wrong. Can someone make the case that this isn't a bad argument?
If it happens often enough, especially trending over an extended period of time, it's no longer weather, it's climate.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2016 10:35 AM NoNukes has replied

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 248 of 944 (775408)
01-01-2016 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Omnivorous
01-01-2016 10:40 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
f it happens often enough, especially trending over an extended period of time, it's no longer weather, it's climate.
Of course. That's why I accept most of the paragraph and only pick on the final claim which is about a particularly warm day last week.
On further review though, I think the entire paragraph with the exception of the initially claim about temperatures this past century is quite questionable.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Omnivorous, posted 01-01-2016 10:40 AM Omnivorous has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2016 8:00 AM NoNukes has replied

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 249 of 944 (775497)
01-02-2016 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by NoNukes
01-01-2016 11:12 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
NoNukes,
I am looking at my electric bill from Rocky Mountain Power. I used 224 Kwh more this December than I did in December of 2014.
Interesting thing is that this bill lists the average daily temperature for both December 2014 and December 2015.
For 2014 the average temp for December was 29F.
For 2015 the average temp for December was 13F.
Does this mean the earth's temperature has dropped 16 degrees F in the last year?
Only if you are an AGW moron.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by AZPaul3, posted 01-02-2016 10:34 AM petrophysics1 has not replied
 Message 251 by Theodoric, posted 01-02-2016 11:15 AM petrophysics1 has not replied
 Message 254 by NoNukes, posted 01-02-2016 1:02 PM petrophysics1 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 250 of 944 (775503)
01-02-2016 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by petrophysics1
01-02-2016 8:00 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
Does this mean the earth's temperature has dropped 16 degrees F in the last year?
Only if you are an AGW moron.
Your're right. Only a moron would think that. And only a moron would consider that anyone who understands the science and the facts of AGW would think that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2016 8:00 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 251 of 944 (775509)
01-02-2016 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by petrophysics1
01-02-2016 8:00 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
The amazing thing is that you would even posit that anyone that understands the science of AGW would think such a thing. I think you just built a giant of a strawman.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 252 of 944 (775521)
01-02-2016 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by AZPaul3
01-02-2016 10:34 AM


We have the data -- we win
Your're right. Only a moron would think that. And only a moron would consider that anyone who understands the science and the facts of AGW would think that.
Especially when you look at the data presented in the Message 245 link, which covers *all* the purported\supposed "alternative" explanations of the deniers AND all the anthropomorphic causes and compare them to the observed data:
(1) sum natural causes ~negligible effect
(2) sum human causes ~100% effect
So one would have to be a moron to continue to argue natural causes are having a significant effect on the data.
Note that they include aerosols which were banned to prevent ozone depletion and their reduction in use leads to negative warming trends -- evidence that we CAN affect the results with appropriate action.
My advice to those in fossil fuel industries is to get out and get involved in alternatives. My house is now grid-free from electricity, and by next year I plan to be off gas (converting my heating system to electric hot water powered by my solar panels).
Every day that passes just brings more confirmation of global climate change, sadly, it seems, at an increasing rate.
So when does the cognitive dissonance bubble burst? What catastrophe will be needed to make people sit up and listen?
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : clrty
Edited by RAZD, : sp

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 253 of 944 (775531)
01-02-2016 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by RAZD
01-02-2016 11:36 AM


Solar (alternative energy) economics
I paid $15,000.00 to have a solar panel array installed on my roof.
This will save me $750.00 per year on electricity costs (at current rates, which I expect to rise with time). That is a return on investment of 5% -- better than you can get from most other forms of investment.
The government grants & tax breaks mean ~1/3 of the cost of the installation will be recovered, increasing my return to 7.5% per year.
My current gas bill is ~$850.00/year for house heating (radiant hot water) and hot water. Converting to an electric water heater (which gets hot enough to use for radiant floor heat -- you don't want to scald your feet) means an additional saving (for an additional cost of ~$800.00 installed), and would bring my return on investment to $1600.00/$15800.00 = 10% and with the grants and tax cuts it will be $1600.00/$10800.00 = ~15% return. Note that this means you can make this investment with a 2nd mortgage or a home equity loan and still be ahead as long as the interest on the loan is less than the "interest" you realize from reduced utility costs.
Every year I will in effect be getting $1600.00 from the sun. While I do nothing but sit and enjoy it. And this will increase each year as the utility rates go up.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : tpo

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 254 of 944 (775533)
01-02-2016 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by petrophysics1
01-02-2016 8:00 AM


Re: Funny Weather We're Having
oil and gasman writes:
Does this mean the earth's temperature has dropped 16 degrees F in the last year?
Only if you are an AGW moron.
Just to be clear. I think the understanding that 2015 was the hottest year on record and that thirteen of the last fourteen such years were in this century is a statement about climate rather than weather.
OTOH I do question the validity of statement about how cold or hot it was last week as evidence for climate change regardless of its cause. Such statements are not helpful. You might just as well be showing a snowball in front of Congress or arguing about your pipes having frozen last year as some have done here.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by petrophysics1, posted 01-02-2016 8:00 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by RAZD, posted 01-02-2016 1:38 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 255 of 944 (775536)
01-02-2016 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by NoNukes
01-02-2016 1:02 PM


not a pretty picture
Just to be clear. I think the understanding that 2015 was the hottest year on record and that ...
... each month was a new hottest record for the month, which I believe is a new phenomenon.
Let me spell that out again: 2015 was the hottest year, month by month, than any on record.
There is a measured slowing of the ocean conveyor belt.
[abe] Domain Names, Web Hosting and Online Marketing Services | Network Solutions
quote:
Might these changes interfere with the Global Conveyor Belt? Several lines of evidence indicate that the Global Conveyor Belt in the Northern Atlantic has slowed in recent years. Satellites have monitored sea surface heights all over the world with high precision for over a decade. Because water flows downhill, differences in sea surface heights from place to place indicate the direction and magnitude of currents.
The Labrador Current by this measure has been declining. ...
... Detailed analyses of these data, however, have lead to divergent conclusions: Some investigators believe the contributions of the North Atlantic Oscillation to changes in the Global Conveyor Belt to be large [2], some consider it medium [3], and others believe it to be small [4]. Additional measurements over a longer time should provide more definitive answers about the relationships among currents, temperatures, and pressures in the North Atlantic and other regions.
That was published December 16, 2010, but I thought I saw some recent data on this. [/abe]
Not a pretty picture at all
Edited by RAZD, : abe

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
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