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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4381 of 5179 (770782)
10-13-2015 11:28 PM


Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
So, in Georgia a man shot a woman in the back because he felt she was driving too slowly.
The police response is a bit bizarre. In today’s time, I’d encourage anyone to avoid confrontation with motorists out on the roadway, said Major Stephen Fore, of DeKalb County police. You just don’t know what’s in that other person’s mind.

Replies to this message:
 Message 4382 by vimesey, posted 10-14-2015 2:36 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4382 of 5179 (770789)
10-14-2015 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 4381 by Dr Adequate
10-13-2015 11:28 PM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
It's all part of the same pro-gun narrative - line up as much as you possibly can to blame, apart from gun ownership. In this case, Major Fore seems to be suggesting we blame the victim.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4381 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-13-2015 11:28 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4383 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2015 8:10 AM vimesey has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4383 of 5179 (770796)
10-14-2015 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 4382 by vimesey
10-14-2015 2:36 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
"Major Fore seems to be suggesting we blame the victim."
In Fore's defense, we don't know exactly what question he was responding to when he made his statement. Generally, the advice about confronting people on the highway is a good idea. You aren't going to accomplish much by confronting someone who acts a fool on the highway.
His advice is similar to the advice to just give a robber your money if he points a weapon at you. That advice is appropriate. But it just seems bad timing to give it when we are discussing a shooting victim.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4382 by vimesey, posted 10-14-2015 2:36 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4384 by vimesey, posted 10-14-2015 8:23 AM NoNukes has replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4384 of 5179 (770797)
10-14-2015 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 4383 by NoNukes
10-14-2015 8:10 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
Oh I've no doubt that it's sensible not to get involved in altercations if you can avoid them. And I take your point that we don't know the context of the remarks.
But we've moved away from (for example) examining how short a rape victim's skirt was, because we recognise that the question introduces an attribution of blame to someone other than the scum who did it.
I get the impression that the pro-gun movement is all too happy to throw blame absolutely anywhere other than guns - including onto victims. I think that's a narrative we should constantly challenge.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4383 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2015 8:10 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4385 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2015 10:09 AM vimesey has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4385 of 5179 (770803)
10-14-2015 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 4384 by vimesey
10-14-2015 8:23 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
But we've moved away from (for example) examining how short a rape victim's skirt was, because we recognise that the question introduces an attribution of blame to someone other than the scum who did it.
Yes. For rape we have made that call. But we have not made the call for every other situation.
We still tell people to drive defensively because there are idiots out there and it is still good practical advice not to defend your wallet with your life. While I probably would not give my adult daughter any fashion advice, I might warn her about messing with dickhead drivers with anger management issues.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4384 by vimesey, posted 10-14-2015 8:23 AM vimesey has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4386 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2015 10:34 AM NoNukes has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4386 of 5179 (770804)
10-14-2015 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 4385 by NoNukes
10-14-2015 10:09 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
Sure, but in this case "messing with him" amounted to not driving as fast as he wanted, so the cop's advice boils down to "if some jerk is tailgating you, you should speed up or he might shoot you." Which, if followed, would probably cost more lives than it would save.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4385 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2015 10:09 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4387 by Tangle, posted 10-14-2015 11:01 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 4389 by NoNukes, posted 10-14-2015 1:19 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9510
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 4387 of 5179 (770808)
10-14-2015 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 4386 by Dr Adequate
10-14-2015 10:34 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
The official advice for coping with tailgaters is to pull over and let the arsehole past.
Then lift the Remington M2010 ESR off the rack and shoot him in the back of the head from a safe distance.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4386 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2015 10:34 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4390 by RAZD, posted 10-14-2015 2:25 PM Tangle has not replied

Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 4388 of 5179 (770812)
10-14-2015 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 4265 by Faith
10-04-2015 5:28 AM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Faith writes:
If enough of us consistently prayed against the gun violence that would cut down on a lot of it,
By that logic a proportion of 70% of American's who identify as Christians are choosing not to pray to stop mass shootings.
Bad Christians! Bad!

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4265 by Faith, posted 10-04-2015 5:28 AM Faith has not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 4389 of 5179 (770816)
10-14-2015 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 4386 by Dr Adequate
10-14-2015 10:34 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
Sure, but in this case "messing with him" amounted to not driving as fast as he wanted,
I understand that, Dr. Adequate, but we don't know what question the advice was offered in response to, so we might not be able to blame the sheriff for the connection between the advice and the incident.
Of course it is entirely possible that the sheriff did offer some really bad advice. But his advice would be so astoundingly bad in this case, that I thought we might consider other possibilities.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4386 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2015 10:34 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4397 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-16-2015 11:48 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1432 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4390 of 5179 (770823)
10-14-2015 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4387 by Tangle
10-14-2015 11:01 AM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
The official advice for coping with tailgaters is to pull over and let the arsehole past.
These are of course the stupid people that pull up behind you and sit for 5 minutes before they consider passing ... even when the highway is completely empty.
And pulling over for someone with road rage may not be a good idea either.
I usually put on my 4-way blinkers, and they generally back off.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
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to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 4387 by Tangle, posted 10-14-2015 11:01 AM Tangle has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 311 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4391 of 5179 (770835)
10-14-2015 3:32 PM


But, you know, right to bear arms. Yeah.

Replies to this message:
 Message 4392 by Modulous, posted 10-14-2015 3:59 PM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 4393 by vimesey, posted 10-14-2015 4:05 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 4392 of 5179 (770838)
10-14-2015 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 4391 by Dr Adequate
10-14-2015 3:32 PM


I am not sure what you are trying to prove Dr. A. As anyone who knows anything knows, within the last 3 years, 3 people have died and literally hundreds injured in the USA as a result of malicious use of the APC:

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4391 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2015 3:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4396 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-16-2015 11:46 AM Modulous has replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4393 of 5179 (770839)
10-14-2015 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 4391 by Dr Adequate
10-14-2015 3:32 PM


Yeah, but those are all other people's toddlers, Dr A - they don't count :-/

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4391 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2015 3:32 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Heathen
Member (Idle past 1310 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


(3)
Message 4394 of 5179 (770880)
10-15-2015 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 4269 by Tangle
10-04-2015 8:43 AM


Re: Prayer works if you do it right
Uh? Praying only works if you're praying in god's will - wtf does that mean?
It appears that Praying only works if you're praying for the thing that god was going to do anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4269 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2015 8:43 AM Tangle has not replied

Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(5)
Message 4395 of 5179 (770891)
10-15-2015 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 4340 by Faith
10-06-2015 10:21 AM


Re: The Culture of Gun Fetishism
Faith writes:
I think most liberals are totally nave about the reality of threats to America.
Did you know about 30 people are shot to death every day in America? I contend the greatest threat to America is another American with a gun.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4340 by Faith, posted 10-06-2015 10:21 AM Faith has not replied

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