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Author Topic:   Is it moral for God to punish us?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 43 of 145 (771227)
10-22-2015 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by New Cat's Eye
10-22-2015 2:01 PM


Cat Sci
If you could not dither out that I read your negative statement as a positive on and that my no could not possibly match the statements I put after it then----------
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-22-2015 2:01 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-22-2015 3:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 52 of 145 (771452)
10-26-2015 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Raphael
10-22-2015 9:49 PM


Raphael
You have taken a more literal view yet you do not like the assumptions I get from logic and reason of the literal while saying that all you assumptions are correct by quoting what others people have put down and assuming that those are correct. Yet you do not break my logic trails. That just puts me up against the Saints. They are not here for me to argue against, especially when they do not make logical sense. Like talking animals and a water walking God.
---------
What's so hard to believe about such simple things? The majority of people today believe in the supernatural, whether that be ghosts, demons, spirits, aliens. Why should I buy into the non-miracle bias our post-modern historical method has adopted?
It is, of course, your choice.
Chose faith if you like. Faith is the biggest part of supernatural belief.
Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.
The God of the OT says, Come now, and let us reason together, [Isaiah 1:18]
How can literalists reason with God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?
Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.
Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.
This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.
----------
Now, humans know that a way other than God's way exists, and it is automatically enticing, because selfishness is always gratifying.
Indeed. This brings to mind the ever so great commandments you mentioned above.
Note how selfish God’s first few commandment re towards himself. If selfishness is evil as you say, then God is the most selfish. You have put some others name above his for creating weather. Whose name would you put above his for selfishness?
----------
I am a senior theology major completing my studies at university
Impressive. I have little in the way of formal education as compared to you. It is a shame that you have wasted so much of your life believing in the supernatural and stifling your ability to use reason and logic. I do recognize though that when someone invests as much effort into something wrong as you have, that it is hard to drop it for something better. Belief and idol worship is not as good as thinking. Trust me on this as you let your faith guide you into your supernatural beliefs. Just because you think yourself in a majority does not mean that you are right.
You choose, likely because of that supernatural belief, to ignore what the Jews thought of their own work in Genesis as our elevation and not our fall. You have also made the creator of all, just a creator of some. Quite an insult to God, even as you deny God’s own words in Genesis of man becoming as Gods in the way we think. I don’t know quite where you want to go from here so I just put those few remarks above.
God cannot die, yet you have him dying. Men of honor, whom you think Jesus chose as disciples would not allow one of their own to just walk away to turn Jesus in without saying a word in trying to dissuade him and pick from other bibles to form you opinion while ignoring the older and better translations. That is not quite honest of you. You also have God creating only the light while and say someone else created the dark while ignoring that scriptures say he created all things.
You make your God into -----
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30lGrarz3MQ
My Gnostic Christian version of God created all things and that is why we are all saved, while your creed has the vast majority of us end in hell or death. You can have your loser who can’t quite get things right. I will keep mine that has created everything right. In both the mythical and logical sense of course.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Raphael, posted 10-22-2015 9:49 PM Raphael has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 53 of 145 (771453)
10-26-2015 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Raphael
10-22-2015 9:50 PM


Raphael
No problem buddy.
I like to see how far someone will go to make absurdities seen not so.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Raphael, posted 10-22-2015 9:50 PM Raphael has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by ringo, posted 10-26-2015 12:32 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 54 of 145 (771454)
10-26-2015 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by GDR
10-24-2015 10:47 PM


GDR
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
This seems to bolster your view.
But where in your view did Jesus think the Father was?
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Jesus' God was a man. Think of the Jewish Divine Council and the fact that even today, a Rabbi can overrule the written traditions and that God.
An example of Jesus taking that role was when he said that the Sabbath was created for man and not man for the Sabbath and that one could work on the Sabbath. He was overruling the written tradition as the oral one is the important one.
Man is the supreme creature on earth and not old written records.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by GDR, posted 10-24-2015 10:47 PM GDR has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 55 of 145 (771455)
10-26-2015 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Faith
10-25-2015 12:57 AM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Faith
Jesus said to seek God. Not to seek him.
If all three, Father, Son and the holy ghost were in Jesus and thus were the sacrifice, who was there to receive the sacrifice?
If Jesus gave us the prayer of our Father who art in heaven, and Jesus, the father and the holy ghost were right here on earth showing us this prayer, is that an indication that these Gnostic Christians words from Jesus are correct?
Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Faith, posted 10-25-2015 12:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 10-26-2015 9:48 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 58 of 145 (771544)
10-27-2015 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
10-26-2015 9:48 AM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Faith
"Gnostic stuff just sounds like a lot of pseudophilosophical babble, silly sophistries."
Compare that to your belief in angels and demons and talking animals and give your head a shake.
Who is the greater fool?
Jesus shows you where spirituality resides and you throw it away for supernatural garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&l...
Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Remain in poverty.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 10-26-2015 9:48 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 10-27-2015 9:04 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 62 of 145 (771641)
10-28-2015 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
10-27-2015 9:04 PM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Faith
So what you quote from scriptures are showing the real Jesus but what I quote from the same gospels are showing a fake Jesus.
Ok.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 10-27-2015 9:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 63 of 145 (771643)
10-28-2015 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by kbertsche
10-28-2015 12:07 AM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
kbertsche
Equality is a big thing with Gnostic Christianity as we are universalists.
We tie equality to righteousness.
Gnostic Scriptures and Fragments: Epiphanes - On Righteousness
That is what Jesus is saying below.
2 Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. 3For every female who makes herself male will enter the domain of Heaven."
Something you should remember is that most of the old Gods, including the Jewish God which is the one in play here, were androgynous.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by kbertsche, posted 10-28-2015 12:07 AM kbertsche has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 64 of 145 (771647)
10-28-2015 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
10-28-2015 12:12 AM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Faith
Please read my last and wonder why the Gnostic Christian Jesus pushes the equality of all souls, while the Jesus you follow does not.
That is undeniable when you look at his no-divorce policy for women while having a divorce policy for men.
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Before you try to correct me, remember that your own bible says that you are not fit to teach a man anything.
How do you like your inequality as compared to a Gnostic Christian full equality?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Faith, posted 10-28-2015 12:12 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 10-28-2015 3:50 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 68 of 145 (771763)
10-29-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Faith
10-28-2015 3:50 PM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Faith
"as a comparison with the Bible should show a fair-minded judge,"
Is a judge who demand and accepts bribes and sacrifices a fair minded judge?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 10-28-2015 3:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 10-29-2015 6:19 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 70 of 145 (771819)
10-30-2015 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
10-29-2015 6:19 PM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
It is a legitimate question.
Why did you run from it?
Because you did not like your proper and moral answer when comparing it to your God's immoral actions. Right?
If that is not the case, then give a simple yes or no.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 10-29-2015 6:19 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 10-30-2015 11:58 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 74 of 145 (771947)
11-01-2015 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Faith
10-30-2015 11:58 AM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Faith
"fiction".
Absolutely.
So are your core belief systems. All Gods, the way you use the word are fiction.
Your belief is Jewish based and they are not literalists.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 10-30-2015 11:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 11-01-2015 11:24 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 76 of 145 (771950)
11-01-2015 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
10-30-2015 9:28 PM


Re: Biggie Smalls
Phat
Jesus said, be ye like children. KIS.
Joseph Campbell has a short piece you might like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU
Tell me please. Who told you you were not relevant to the universe?
Ask any of your friends and relatives if that is so. They will not agree.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 10-30-2015 9:28 PM Phat has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 77 of 145 (771953)
11-01-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
11-01-2015 11:24 AM


Re: Who raised Jesus?
Dear heart.
There is a quote somewhere that says that ridicule is the only think one can use against ridiculous notions.
I do not want to do that with you. Please forgive.
Talking animals and water walking humans that are real sons of some real invisible God do not belong in history books. Odin as a real God would not be fitting as well. Don't you agree?
Listen to your own bible.
John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
The bible speaks to the spirit world which begins inside of you.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
When you are ready to find your real God, you go inside of yourself.
That is where Gnosis is.
Follow your bible.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 11-01-2015 11:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 11-01-2015 12:14 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 78 of 145 (771954)
11-01-2015 12:14 PM


Faith
Why are there only 4 gospels and not the original plethora?
Biblical Errancy: Why Four Gospels?
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 11-01-2015 12:25 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 86 by kbertsche, posted 11-01-2015 1:39 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
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