Jon writes:
That, of course, is just an anecdote. If we look at actual evidence (surveys of what people believe) we find things like this bit that Mod kindly pointed out long ago but has been doing a good job of forgetting:
quote:
Modulous in Message 131 in Evil Muslim conspiracy...:
quote:
About eight-in-ten Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan (82% each) endorse the stoning of people who commit adultery; 70% of Muslims in Jordan and 56% of Nigerian Muslims share this view. Muslims in Pakistan and Egypt are also the most supportive of whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery; 82% in Pakistan and 77% in Egypt favor making this type of punishment the law in their countries, as do 65% of Muslims in Nigeria and 58% in Jordan.
When asked about the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Jordan (86%), Egypt (84%) and Pakistan (76%) say they would favor making it the law; in Nigeria, 51% of Muslims favor and 46% oppose it. In contrast, Muslims in Lebanon, Turkey and Indonesia largely reject the notion that harsh punishments should be the law in their countries. About three-quarters of Turkish and Lebanese Muslims oppose the stoning of people who commit adultery (77% and 76%, respectively), as does a narrower majority (55%) of Muslims in Indonesia.
The bottom line is: if religiously sanctioned death and mutilation is an extremist position - its a very common one.
Middle-Eastern Muslims are by and large fundamentalists of a nature that makes our own Christian fundamentalists look like kittens.
It's not unreasonable to want to keep their crap out of the West.
So, they agree with the death penalty just like many of their counterparts in the west do. As John Oliver said (paraphrased), "whether you are stoning people to death, boiling them alive, or having them put to sleep by a cute puppy dressed as Winnie the Pooh, you are still getting the same result." I'm anti-death penalty, yet I can understand those people who advocate for this to remain as a penalty. I do not agree with them, but I understand where they are coming from.
As for this:
Jon writes:
What I have said is we have no obligation to receive such folks and should, given what we know of Muslims in the region be very cautious about importing extreme radicalism of the kind the West has already fought enough wars to get rid of in its own borders.
How much radicalism have we "imported" into our country through accepting refugees...I wonder if someone happened to run the actual numbers. Oh wait, they have:
Syrian Refugees don't pose a serious security threat
From this link:
CATO Institute writes:
Of the 859,629 refugees admitted from 2001 onwards, only three have been convicted of planning terrorist attacks on targets outside of the United States, and none was successfully carried out. That is one terrorism-planning conviction for every 286,543 refugees that have been admitted. To put that in perspective, about 1 in every 22,541 Americans committed murder in 2014. The terrorist threat from Syrian refugees in the United States is hyperbolically over-exaggerated and we have very little to fear from them because the refugee vetting system is so thorough.
If you think that radicalized individuals are going to wait the, on average, three years to arrive in this country with refugee status when other options (student visa, tourist visas, or asylum) are available that have a small amount of vetting compared to attempting for refugee status, then I think you have swallowed the fear politicians are selling far too readily.
The CATO Institute continues:
CATO Institute writes:
The UNHCR annually refers less than one percent of all refugees for resettlement. In 2014, they referred a mere 103,890 to all resettlement nations. That year, the United States accepted 69,933 refugees, or about 0.5 percent of the total number of all refugees in the world, but over 67 percent of all those referred by UNHCR.
In 2015, the United States has accepted only 1,682 Syrian refugees, or 0.042 percent of the 4,045,650 registered Syrian refugees. Only one out of every 2,405 Syrian refugees in a camp was resettled in the United States in 2015.
So, these are the numbers. You are far more likely to get shot by your neighbor in the United States than you are to be threatened by a Syrian refugee, regardless of their religion.
The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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