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Author Topic:   Should Canada and the U.S. tolerate an intolerant Islam?
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(3)
Message 11 of 127 (772723)
11-18-2015 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
11-17-2015 11:50 AM


Do not tolerate an intolerant Islam. But do tolerate Islam.
Stop being part of the problem.
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you seem to be going down the exact same path as those we want to stop?
The problem we are facing is that some people have taken their personal ideology (Islam) way too seriously. Then, they take offense to someone else's ideology ("Western ideology"). From there, they incorporate discrimination and overreaction to wanting to stop all westerners.
You seem to take your personal ideology ("Western ideology") way too seriously. Now, you've taken offense to someone else's ideology (Islam). From there, you've incorporated discrimination and overreaction to wanting to stop all Muslims.
You are part of the problem. Stop being part of the problem.
Discrimination and overreaction is part of the problem.
If you want to retaliate and attack those that did this damage... then find those that actually did this damage and retaliate against them. Just because that's a difficult task doesn't mean you're validated into taking the easy road and wrongly attacking an entire group of people who have nothing to do with the damage other than interpreting the same religion in a very different way.
Your overreaction into "all Islam is bad" or "all Muslims are bad" is exactly the same as the path that led to the damage in the first place. Your continued progression down this path will only solidify the similarities between you and ISIS.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 11-17-2015 11:50 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 11-18-2015 10:45 AM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 18 of 127 (772772)
11-18-2015 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Greatest I am
11-18-2015 10:45 AM


Re: Do not tolerate an intolerant Islam. But do tolerate Islam.
Greatest I am writes:
You would have us do the difficult task while people die when there is no need for them to die at all.
I am unaware of a plan that would prevent innocent people from dying.
If you actually do know of one, I am very interested in hearing about it.
Can you explain one to me?
Wait, I might understand what you meant if you answer the following question honestly: Do you consider *any* Muslims to be innocent people in this catastrophe?
Islam has to reform and the only way we can help it reform is to keep the "good" Muslims in the "bad" Muslims so as they can reform the "bad" Muslims.
Or we could help it reform by giving example after example after example of what a good person should do.
And when we are able to find the specific people responsible... stop them using force.
But your plan is to make other people do the dirty work so that you don't have to worry about the "hard task."
Other people who do not have all the advantages we do.
Other people who are not in as good a position to help the problem as we are.
And, of course, even if your plan was implemented it wouldn't stop the deaths of innocent Westerners anyway. It's a pipedream.
The terrorists cannot be contained for the same reason they cannot be kept out of the country.
They don't have a country, they don't have an area. They're already inside every major nation. They don't grow by birth. They grow by indoctrination over communication (internet) which has nothing to do with immigration policies.
Stopping immigration will affect the problem in exactly the same way as continuing immigration as it is currently done... no significant affect whatsoever.
I don't want to be a part of the world you're trying to shape with this "solution" just as I don't want to be a part of the world that the terrorists are trying to shape.
You're still being a part of the problem.
Your idea is helping to create a bad world.
You want to stop bad-world-number-1, but you only want to replace it with bad-world-number-2. We've seen this cycle repeat itself throughout history. You just want one more turn of the bad-world circle.
Why not fight against the bad?
Why not aim for a good world?
Why not do things that are not similar to how the terrorists do things?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 11-18-2015 10:45 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Greatest I am, posted 11-18-2015 4:21 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 24 of 127 (772822)
11-19-2015 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Greatest I am
11-18-2015 4:21 PM


Re: Do not tolerate an intolerant Islam. But do tolerate Islam.
Greatest I am writes:
If Islam is to reform, Muslims will have to do it.
This is true.
But making them do it alone is a bad thing, and will only serve to hurt ourselves.
We need to help.
Allowing them to bring their ideological garbage into our countries when they are followers and pushers of Sharia is not going to do them any good and it will certainly not help the West as is plainly apparent across the Atlantic.
And no one has ever done this, or advocated doing this.
When ever the "garbage" goes against our existing laws, they are punished just like anyone else.
Showing tolerance to the intolerant is showing weakness to one who always has taken advantage of weakness. Doing so is insane.
Again, your statement is absolutely correct.
But, again, you seem to miss the point that no one is advocating such a thing.
I don't want to show tolerance to those that do not deserve it.
However, I am also against your proposal of retaliation by hurting innocent people. Even by ignoring them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Greatest I am, posted 11-18-2015 4:21 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Greatest I am, posted 11-19-2015 1:06 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 86 of 127 (773080)
11-24-2015 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Jon
11-24-2015 9:13 AM


Us vs. Them
Jon writes:
Certainly you don't think it is the West's job to save all these folks from their own ideological nightmare?
East, West, North, South.
We are all people.
Of course it's our job. Because we're people.
Your division is arbitrary and useless and entirely part of the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Jon, posted 11-24-2015 9:13 AM Jon has not replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 117 of 127 (773191)
11-26-2015 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Jon
11-25-2015 4:09 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits
Jon writes:
Can anyone think of any benefits of Islam?
Sorry, I didn't think you meant this question seriously.
The benefits of Islam are: Happiness, peace, love, growth, friendship, and strength, to name a few.
Really, the benefits are the same as any other mainstream religion or even atheism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Jon, posted 11-25-2015 4:09 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Greatest I am, posted 12-02-2015 2:08 PM Stile has not replied

  
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