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Author Topic:   Should Canada and the U.S. tolerate an intolerant Islam?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 127 (773081)
11-24-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
11-24-2015 11:05 AM


Re: Benefits of Islam
The natives didn't have a country for the europeans to immigrate into, nor did they have a say in whether or not they would "let" them in.
That's not analogous to citizens asking another country to allow them to seek refuge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 11-24-2015 11:05 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 11-24-2015 11:42 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 91 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 12:18 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 127 (773083)
11-24-2015 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by ringo
11-24-2015 11:42 AM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Sure they did. They had their territories with disputed boundaries, just like white folks have.
It was not just like white folks had. They didn't even have property rights, and had nothing in the way of an immigration policy.
They had a say.
No, they didn't have a say in whether or not they would allow us on to the continent.
All they could do was fight us if they didn't like it.
That's not analogous to a country making decisions on their immigration policy.
It's not 'welcome or fight'; the country has the option of legally disallowing it. The natives did not have this option.
They said, "Yes." Later on, when they changed their minds and said, "No,"
They were not a cohesive enough group to qualify their response to the european invasion with a "yes or no".
their lack of might failed to make them right.
That is, they did not have a say.
The Mayflower pilgrims, for one example, were seeking refuge, and it was granted.
Not "granted", just not fought.
That's different from the question of whether or not a country's immigration policy should grant refugee status to certain immigrants.
It's just a completely different question. Analogizing it with the response of native americans to european invation doesn't even begin to cover it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by ringo, posted 11-24-2015 11:42 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by ringo, posted 11-24-2015 12:17 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 93 of 127 (773095)
11-24-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Omnivorous
11-24-2015 12:18 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Social and political evolution beyond the nation state is our species' greatest challenge to date. We'll do it or die.
I don't subscribe to all that koombaya we're-all-one nonsense. Nor do I believe that failing to accept that will be our downfall.
And actually, it doesn't impact my position on Syrian refugees anyways.
I'll continue to be selfish :
I want tens of thousands of Syrian to move to St. Louis because it will be better for St. Louis, and by extension, better for me.
It worked with the Bosnians and I have no reason to think that it won't work with the Syrians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 12:18 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 3:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 95 of 127 (773101)
11-24-2015 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Omnivorous
11-24-2015 3:35 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Nonetheless, in light of your denial, I wonder who comprises the "we" and "our" you refer to in your denial of "us".
All of humanity can still survive while realizing that those people over there are not the same as these people over here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 3:35 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 4:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 127 (773103)
11-24-2015 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Omnivorous
11-24-2015 4:29 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
All of humanity is not surviving now
Sure it is, our population's growing at an exponential rate.
What do you mean?
a SRO planet
Standing Room Only?
I don't see that, there's plenty of land with < 100 people/km2.
What do you mean?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 4:29 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 5:50 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 127 (773111)
11-24-2015 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Omnivorous
11-24-2015 5:50 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Was it so hard to see that was what I meant by an SRO planet?
Yes, I had no idea what you were talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 5:50 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 6:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 127 (773117)
11-24-2015 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Omnivorous
11-24-2015 6:54 PM


Re: Benefits of Islam
Pardon me, I had to run. I was gonna type more last time.
Okay. I guess our own meanings are always clear.
Of course. Just don't forget Hanlon's razor when questioning a misunderstanding.
I had to google SRO, and I wasn't even sure you meant standing room only.
I'm not trying to be cheesy
Anyways, if I got you right: our survival is doomed because limited resources make our growth unsustainable and sociopolitical evolution beyond the nation state is necessary to survive that. ?
Maybe I'm too naively futuristic, but couldn't looking away from the planet and towards space be a viable alternative to making us all get along? (collectively)
I'm not saying your idea sucks, I'm just not convinced it is necessary. Perhaps we should find a new topic for that, and just high-five for both welcoming Syrian refugees. Or not, w/e.
(Upon re-reading my characterization, it seemed cheesier than I intended. I get why you thought I was being disingenuously pedantic with the later questions. I try to avoid too many rhetorical questions so as to not dilute the sincerity of the real ones. So if I'm asking you, in particular, then I prolly mean it.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 6:54 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Omnivorous, posted 11-25-2015 2:05 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 127 (773124)
11-24-2015 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Jon
11-24-2015 10:17 PM


I know; which is why I said this thread isn't just about 'refugees'.
Are you really too afraid of terrorists to let refugees into your area?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Jon, posted 11-24-2015 10:17 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Jon, posted 11-25-2015 7:44 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 107 of 127 (773140)
11-25-2015 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Jon
11-25-2015 7:44 AM


So, that doesn't mean you cannot answer the question.
It's as if we had a thread about the alphabet and you refused to answer a question about the letter Q, because the thread isn't just about Q

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Jon, posted 11-25-2015 7:44 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Jon, posted 11-25-2015 1:46 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 126 of 127 (773476)
12-02-2015 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Greatest I am
12-02-2015 2:02 PM


Re: So... 'Bout Them Benefits

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Greatest I am, posted 12-02-2015 2:02 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
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