Message of the Bible

Maybe you were provided an offering from God, but for some reason you declined it.
Mark 4:11

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And he said to them, To you is given [to know] the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to them who are without, all things are done in parables , 12 that beholding they may behold and not see, and hearing they may hear and not understand, lest it may be, they should be converted and they should be forgiven. I suppose in the least it's a matter of perspective/intelligence.Let's say you made a contract with a bank manager for a large loan.
Let's say for whatever reason you were unable to pay it back.
Chance's are you'll be in trouble, and the bank acts against you with vengeance. That's one kind of contract I'd rather not make.Let's say you you made an agreement with a friend for a large loan.
Let's say for whatever reason you were unable to pay it back.
Chance's are your friend would let you continue paying back when you were able or if he's really good friend he'll say don't worry about paying it back.Point, made any contracts lately? Bet you have!
See any contracts in verse, hint OT, NT.
Luke 16:13

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No servant can serve two masters , for either he will hate the one and will love the other, or he will cleave to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Guidelines! I tend to see them as laws in the OT, and commandments in the NT. Have you heard, God has chosen a people?
Ever give consideration that Israel became a nation again about 60 years ago?
Mark 13:8

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For nation shall rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be earthquakes in [different] places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these things [are the] beginnings of throes. 9 But *ye*, take heed to yourselves, for they shall deliver you up to sanhedrims and to synagogues: ye shall be beaten and brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony to them; 10 and the gospel must first be preached to all the nations.
It's been about 2000 years since John started preaching it, seems you haven't taken it to heart for some reason(s).[This message has been edited by P e t e r, 01-09-2004]

Nope. I read the bible, didn't understand what the fuss was about. End of story. I don't understand this. Sorry, could you please spell it out for me? I don't see the relationship between banks and loans when it concerns the nature of god.Infact, if you are saying that life is a loan of some kind, I would contest that your analogy is faulty.It would be more akin to owing a huge lump of cash, yet nobody told yo u you did, and you never knew you took out the loan in the first place. The lender never sends you a single letter, or notice, you don't hear a word. Then years down the line you realize your broke, an d your credit is ruind due to an outstanding debt you knew nothing about.That sounds more like a god loan. How can laws or commandments be rutinely broken by the very people who are supposed to obey them, and get told its ok.After all, nobody has been able to tell me how god can make raping virgins an ok thing. Can god make these things good peter? Can God make men pillaging and looting inocent people a good thing?Sorry, I don't buy it. ya, that clearly says that Isreal would become a nation in former palestine in the 1960's due to a zionist movement, and world wide sympathies after the nazi hollocaust.I mean, it spells it out so clearly in that quote! How could I ever have missed it!I mean, jeez, it even got the earthquakes and famin! Who knew there would be earthquakes in the future! Not to mention people going hungry! My god, the forsight! It's amazing!Here is an exercise for you. Where does it say Isreal will become a nation in the bible? Find me the chapter and verse were it says that clear as day, and then I will belive it.

I'll take that as you declining that something who's source could be from God.Myself I tend to look at the bible as a never ending story. Simile: A figure of speech that expresses a resemblance between things of different kinds (usually formed with 'like' or 'as')Your average Holy Bible is made up of two testaments.Testament:1 A profession of belief
2 A legal document declaring a person's wishes regarding the disposal of their property when they die
3 Strong evidence for something Nope, trying to emphasize how we are bound to the contracts/agreements we make and the resulting outcomes. Idealy they should be kept, but some can't keep them or comphrehend that they ought to.
Hebrews 9;28

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thus the Christ also, having been once offered to bear the sins of many, shall appear to those that look for him the second time without sin for salvation.

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Chow for now.

Hey Peter,A minor thing, but you rutinely sign off with Chow for now. Maybe it's on purpose, an no offence intended, but it's spelled Ciao. I think there is an accent in there as well to be totaly accurate Anyway, just letting you know. Now on to the topic at hand. Well, I read the bible with the intent of seeing for myself if the text seemed divinely inspired. But it didn't. It read like a collection of myths and belifes of an ancient culture.I have read other books simmilar too it, comming from various places around the world. It was interesting, but it never struck me as being particularly 'true'. Well, I'm still not following. What contract or agreement? I was reffering to instances were horrible acts were orderd by God. Read some of the first posts in this thread. God ordered babys dashed on rocks, women raped, old folks murdered, and loot be given unto his temple.We are talking some horrible stuff.You also ignored some other points in my post concerning prophecy. But we can let that rest for now as it may take us on a tangent. Lets concern ourselves with gods Laws and Commandments.Can god make rapeing and killing babys good?That's my question. It merits a yes or a no.Also, consider that this is exactly what god orders people to do on several occasions thrughout the bible.[This message has been edited by Yaro, 01-09-2004]

Have you considered the possibility that when he leaves, it's to go eat?

Yaro, I would like to break in here and say that the reason my replies to your posts have kinda dried up is because you are insisting that God ordered rape.You know I disagree, God ordered the judgement of death and it is YOU who have deduced that rape must have incidentially happened.I feel there is nowhere for you and I to go in this issue. Ring-around-the-rosy is no fun.Why would God order rape ? It doesn't make sense. The text you cite can only be misconstrued into rape but it does not implicitly say rape or a synonym - IT IS YOUR interpretation that says rape.I have also laboriuosly argued why all the horror in the O.T. happens.
Until you somehow incorporate what I have said into your replies there is nowhere to go in our debate.

WT,Maybe you see it as a circle because you refuse to acknowledge, or adress the idea, that virgins whos families were slaughterd, then forced to mary their parents killers, isn't some form of rape.You have yet to respond to the very simple question:Can god make infantacide, and rape YES RAPE, a good thing?It is inconceivable to me that somehow you can twist, what is obviously a very graphic account of the dehuminization of a grupe of people, as just punishment.If someone murderd your family, then forced you to serve them, woulden't you say you have been raped in a way?Can I not say the same for young girls, who had their lives destroyed, being forced to wed (and presumabley conduct themselves as wives, including sex) the very people who murderd their parents?How is this justice?Perhapse WT, it's because you dance around this issue in every post. You never answer the question of: by what mechinisim can god make these horrible actions right?[This message has been edited by Yaro, 01-09-2004]

May I also add WT,That I think you are giving up. I have met all your points, you have yet to adress some of my fundamental arguments at all.

After reading this post of yours - I apologize.If you are attacking content (and you say that you are) then this is most certainly valid. I just didn't grasp the degree to which you disagree.I think I understand your contention.God gave Adam/Eve free will in the specific arena of the issue of the Tree of K.of G.and E. This is a fact that is not in dispute.They had the choice to eat from it (and disobey God) or not eat from it (and obey God).As long as they did not eat from it they were perfectly innocent before God - in a state of obedience.God gave them this free will because He values them to freely and willingly choose to do what He says. God could of made robots who are programmed to do what He says, but there is no value in that.Adam/Eve were on trial, a trial to see if they had the freedom to do otherwise what would they do.They chose to ignore the seriousness of what God said (death if you touch) and ate.You will never understand the Garden until you recognize the existence of sin (misuse of freedom) and its seriouness.Every human being is on trial until the day we die. If a person does believe this then this does not exempt you from being on trial - it just demonstrates that you are flunking.God aims to populate heaven with people who have recognized that they are lost in sin, and at the same time have reacted to His plan of salvation.Why is this so ?Because God said so, that the vacancy in heaven was created by beings who mis-used their free will to rebel against Him. And He will replace this void with mankind that recognizes the fact that they are the luckiest beings in the universe to be wanted by God. This attitude is the exact attitude that the fallen angels did not have and God is determined for this not to ever happen again.The Tree represents that God is the Boss, He has the right to dictate this right anyway He sees fit.IF He IS, then who is going to oppose Him ?

What verse are referring to? Which pillaging and inocent people are you referring to? How about this;Isai 11:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to acquire the remnant of his people which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And he shall lift up a banner to the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel , and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. You mentioned earlier how you viewed God differently between the OT and NT.Given they are two different covenants, dictates differences of how things operated. I used the loan simile between a banker or friend to highlight how results can differ. Isai 13:16

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And their infants shall be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses shall be rifled, and their women ravished.
Due to my lack of omniscience I couldn't accurately say.

Isai 14:32

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And what shall be answered to the messengers of the nation? That Jehovah hath founded Zion, and the afflicted of his people find refuge in it. I don't have all the data pertaining to the situation therefore a yes or no is not merited.On a side note, do you condone fornicators/adulterers removing their unborn fetus's from the womb and/or trashing them. I wonder if at some point all those ancient people back then will get an opportunity to hear the gospel before the resurrection.

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1 Peter 4:6

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For to this [end] were the glad tidings preached to [the] dead also, that they might be judged, as regards men, after [the] flesh, but live, as regards God, after [the] Spirit.

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Mark 16:15

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And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation. 16 He that believes and is baptised shall be saved, and he that disbelieves shall be condemned .

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Can't say I'm an expert on holiness and although it's somewhat foreign to mankind since time immemorial, it appears to high on someone's agenda in our universe.

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I would settle for ANY evidence.

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Asgara

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[This message has been edited by P e t e r, 01-09-2004]

hhmm the back of a twenty dollar bill is evidence of just what exactly?Considering the topic of this thread, and rereading the post I had replied to, I am assuming that this is evidence of god? Help me out here.I will make another assumption and say you are specifically asking me to look at the "IN GOD WE TRUST" line. So how is a line added to our monetary units in the 1950s as a response to the "Red Threat" meant to be evidence of god or the message of the bible?

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Asgara
"An unexamined life is not worth living" Socrates via Plato

I have not danced - you just cannot for the life of you comprehend my answers.You only see astronomic injustice on a surface level. I say you must understand what happened from the CONTEXT it occurred in.Text without context is error.I have answered these pointy questions of yours in previous posts.The real problem here is your inability to grasp the seriousness of sin. God is the author of the Bible and you fail to see His point in all of this. The Bible was written to get His objective mind understood.These so called innocents you defend are idol worshipping sinners whom God is judging.And if you think He spared His own people these awful judgements then you are ignorant of scripture.Do you know the circumstances and context from which the the book of Habakkuk is written ?The prophet bitterly complains to God that His people are prospering while worshipping idols. God had said that if they worshipped idols He would destroy them.Habakkuk cannot comprehend how God could turn a blind eye to this evil and let them prosper in it.God tells the prophet that He sees what is happening and that He is in the process of responding, but in the mean time "the just will live by faith".God instigates the Chaldeans to rampage into Hebrew territories and take them into bondage. The Chaldeans are utterly ruthless barbarians without a speck of mercy. They proceed to humiliate the Hebrews by marching them off into bondage naked with fishing line hooked through their lips while all connected to each other.Habakkuk sees this and immediately tells God "but I didn't mean for you to do THIS to them..."What's the point ?God is God and He decides punishment according to His known word.We don't like the judgements that our sins cause.God wants it known that if you fuck with Him He will fuck you up in a way you couldn't possibly imagine.God wants it known that if you do what He says (live the life of faith) He will stop the sun for you, like He did for Joshua !!!God wants it known that His Son suffered the agony of a Roman crucifixion for all mankind to remove the penalty of sin that the integrity of His word required.God wants it known that He is not fooling around - He means what He says and says what He means.

Yup, that's the god most of our government worships, all right - money.

You did write, "Any".The authorities who issue money have given evidence of their trust in
God.
Romans 13:3

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For rulers are not a terror to a good work, but to an evil [one]. Dost thou desire then not to be afraid of the authority? practise [what is] good, and thou shalt have praise from it; 4 for it is God's minister to thee for good. But if thou practisest evil, fear; for it bears not the sword in vain; for it is God's minister, an avenger for wrath to him that does evil.