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Author | Topic: Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
It does not but if we ignore all signs of oppression then who will be left to save our sorry asses when oppressors come for us who say we are free but will not do what is required to insure that all share the freedom we say we have? The hijab is not a sign of oppression any more than the mantilla, apostolnik, mitre or yamulkah I mentioned earlier.
That is you first duty as a free person. Do it. My duty includes fighting for others to be free. Even if it means wearing yellow and green stripey socks, brown sandals and a pink skirt. Or a hijab. I fight people who seek to restrict freedom, such as yourself, with puritanical views on what free people are allowed to voluntarily wear.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Modulous
Voluntary is the key word. We are all subject to governments, not to misogynous Muslim men. You have given nothing to help forced women. Quite easy to say what you do not like what I propose but quite harder to suggest what might free those who are oppressed. You are not hurting me at all but are hurting women who are oppressed. RegardsDL
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Nowhere in the Muslim holy books is it said to be a sign of being devout in the wearing of such garb. Again, your ignorance shows. Go back and try again. No, I'm not going to do your research for you, the research you should have already done.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
But it would show Muslim men and their oppressive regimes that they are not compatible with our values and we will not tolerate open displays of their making second class citizens of their women and daughters. But the women very often don't see it any different than what Western society might differentiate between wearing a dress or pants. If a woman chooses to wear a dress, or pants, or a head covering, it is her right. IF she is being oppressed or coerced, she is free to contact the authorities if she is able. I am not at all underplaying the extreme misogyny that is often found in Islam, I am simply saying that not all Muslim women are "forced" to wear them and that banning them would cause more harm than good. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Voluntary is the key word. Yes it is. And you want to restrict voluntary action, which is the opposite of freedom.
We are all subject to governments, not to misogynous Muslim men. This thought doesn't seem connected to anything.
You have given nothing to help forced women. Nor have you. All you have done is make suggestions for forcing free women and forcing forced women into choosing between their government and their religion and their marriage.
Quite easy to say what you do not like what I propose but quite harder to suggest what might free those who are oppressed. Well, yes if we are talking about reasonable and intelligent suggestions to free the oppressed - that is a bigger challenge that defeating your naive argument. My first suggestion is that we don't do what you suggest as it is as oppressive as banning the yarmulkah.
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Bliyaal Member (Idle past 2389 days) Posts: 171 From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada Joined:
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I believe in a political system that the world has yet to form. Socrates would call it a Timocratic system. It is basically a system run by duty and honor while at the same time being quite intolerant and in fact quite tyrannical in the case of those who break the law. From here :
A timocracy is a state where only property owners may participate in government. The more extreme forms of timocracy, where power derives entirely from wealth with no regard for social or civic responsibility, may shift in their form and become a plutocracy where the wealthy and powerful use their power to entrench their wealth. In The Republic, Plato describes five regimes (of which four are unjust). Timocracy is listed as the first "unjust" regime. That's your idea of morals?
So yes, intolerance is a quality in many cases as it means, in this one, that I will not tolerate an immoral religion and ideology like Islam and Sharia to come into my country if I can help it. Who's going to choose what to tolerate or not? You? I knew your ideas were scary but not as much as they actually are. I'm glad we have laws and charters of rights to protect us from people who think like you.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Greatest I am writes:
"Likely" would not agree? You've been shown testimony from women who DO want to wear the hijab. There's no "likely" about it. They DO NOT agree with YOU. An oppressed woman would likely not agree. You're talking about some hypothetical women who are being "forced" by their husbands to wear the hijab and you're using that as an excuse to oppress ALL Muslim women. Shame on you.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Hyroglyphx
I see it as doing more good for the majority than harm to the oppressed as I see the majority not wanting to be forced to wear what they do not want to wear. If and when law makers look at such a ban, statistics will play a major role and so far, my side looks good. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
AZPaul3
You shop that you have not done your own research. Quite lazy of you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7IrvkhUb3Y RegardsDL
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Bliyaal Member (Idle past 2389 days) Posts: 171 From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada Joined: |
Am I right if I say that you seems to be against every bills/charters of rights protecting the rights of the minorities from the dictatorship of the majority?
For your sake, I hope you never find yourself in the minority position.
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Modulous
I said.Voluntary is the key word. You replied.Yes it is. And you want to restrict voluntary action, which is the opposite of freedom. ---------- Are you serious? Every law we have are designed to restrict voluntary actions are they not? RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Bliyaal
You ignore what I put and use an extreme form of what I put to make your case. Nice honesty that. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
ringo
You ignored my use of the word oppressed. You are the one who should feel shame. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 295 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Bliyaal
I am talking of the protection from oppression of a minority of Muslim women in our countries. Exactly what you say your constitution was created to do. What are you talking about? RegardsDL
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Every law we have are designed to restrict voluntary actions are they not? Yes."Everything which is not forbidden is allowed" It makes it no less true that you want to restrict voluntary actions. This infringes on our freedom. There should be a compelling reason to restrict a freedom, something you have not provided. Some homosexuals are nasty partners is not a reason to to ban homosexuality.Some husbands dominate their wives is not a reason to outlaw certain items of clothing.
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